Need help with sizing 6.5 Creedmoor

[Jager]

The Starline brass is brand new, not fired yet. I will fire some of those and look for differences. Definitely getting the imperial lube. I hope it's as magic as you all say!

If I do have a generous chamber and just need a lot of resizing, are there multi-stage resizing dies that let me resize in multiple steps so that each step requires less force?

New, unfired brass and unsized, previously-fired brass are apples and oranges. You don't want to be using one as a comparison reference for the other.

The first thing I'd do is load and shoot a handful of the Starline (new) brass. Then you can see how that previously-fired headstamp behaves relative to the Winchester brass.

Another thing you can do is weigh the respective headstamps, and measure how much water each holds, to understand how thick/heavy they are relative to each other.

Region Rat's suggestion to borrow or buy a single-stage press is well-taken. Lots of great ammo has been loaded on progressive presses. And lots of guys have learned reloading on one. But when an issue like you're having arises, having a simple, high-leverage press available that instantly eliminates other variables is invaluable.

And, yes, properly applied Imperial wax will remove any question about lubrication. Once you've sorted what's going on, you can go back and try the Dillon lube again, if you like.

Interesting problem. Keep us posted...

 

[JFrank]

Oh, it did not occur to me to measure with calipers. The unfired brass I have has a body diameter of 0.459" near the neck, and the fired brass has a body diameter of 0.465". So firing it expanded the diameter about 6 thousandths. Is that an unreasonable amount of expansion? Is that an amount that the size die should be able to fix with the right lube?

If your fired brass is .465 at the case shoulder junction, your resized brass should be around .463
Your die may not be a great fit to your chamber, check the base or .200 datum for excessive sizing as well.
The solution to excessive is to send 3 -3x fired cases to your favorite die supplier for honing.

 

[wbm]

Thanks, if the answer is that Winchester brass is useless I'll just spend some money on other brands. Winchester brass is the only fired brass I have at the moment though, so I need to fire some other brands and see if they give me the same problems.

Not a damn thing wrong with Winchester brass! I have a lot of it and have reloaded it several times with no issues. Set your die correctly and use a good lube and you will do fine.

 

[Doom]

I’m going out on a limb here, but 223 is easy to resize, 6.5CM requires a lot more force. If you are using a a spray lube ( sounds like you are) its very likely you are not getting enough lube on the cases. Using Imperial or Unique will likely alleviate the problem if properly applied.

The brass IS NOT the problem.

 

[KY_Windage]

If the Win brass is nitride coated ("nickel") it can be hard to size. I use Hornady Case Lube and everything goes great as long as I use plenty of it, especially on the first few to go through the die in a batch.

 

[Yossarian]

Okay the imperial sizing die wax got delivered today and sure enough, when I use it I can get cases in and out pretty easy now and they come out the right size. Will I need to use this on all the cases or can I switch back to the Dillon case lube after a while? Applying the wax to the cases is very time consuming, unless there is some trick I don't know.

Also is having a "generous chamber" on my rifle considered a bad thing? It's a Ruger Precision Rifle, which I think is pretty good quality, but it IS a mass market rifle, so I could understand if they decided to make the chamber bigger than strictly necessary to reduce problems with out of spec ammo.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

Stick with the Imperal. It may be slower, but it's more consistent.

 

[joshb]

Using Imperial is easy once you get the system down. Here’s how I do it:
Put the open Imperial tin next to your press
Put the shell in the shell holder.
Rub your index finger on the wax, then rub your index finger and thumb together getting wax on both.
Pinch the shell in your shellholder and rub up and down.
Turn the shell 90 degrees and repeat.
It’s ready to size.
It will surprise you how little wax you need to do the job.
When you get used to the method, it takes seconds a shell.
Good luck!

 

[RegionRat]

Okay the imperial sizing die wax got delivered today and sure enough, when I use it I can get cases in and out pretty easy now and they come out the right size. Will I need to use this on all the cases or can I switch back to the Dillon case lube after a while? Applying the wax to the cases is very time consuming, unless there is some trick I don't know.

Also is having a "generous chamber" on my rifle considered a bad thing? It's a Ruger Precision Rifle, which I think is pretty good quality, but it IS a mass market rifle, so I could understand if they decided to make the chamber bigger than strictly necessary to reduce problems with out of spec ammo.

Glad that worked better.

I typically teach on a single stage to learn what is normal versus abnormal in terms of lube levels and sizing in general. When the student says they are interested in higher level performance, then the discussion gets deeper into the body and neck sizing dies. Find yourself a mentor. If you can't, get the Zediker books on reloading ammo. (ETA: Have a stuck case extractor handy ahead of time.)

Can you use spray lanolin again, yes but give yourself some time with the Imperial for at least a few cycles on that brass to determine if you have a chamber versus die problem.

Is having a generous chamber considered a bad thing? For a precision target rifle it isn't what we like...
It works great in machine guns but only when Uncle Sam is buying the brass. In my own opinion, anyone who ships a chamber that is unintentionally outside of specifications needs to correct their QC. This can condemn the shooter to a painful troubleshooting affair that leads to disappointment and lost time.

I have not worked on enough RPR samples to know if they ever ship a sloppy one. If you have any trustworthy friends that can do a chamber cast, or even if you don't have friends to do this, see a good gunsmith. It may cost you $100 but compared to your time and frustration, not to mention how much fun it is to get brass these days, it would be worth knowing if the chamber is off. Give yourself a few more tries and see if things settle down.

If you continue to have sizing problems after taking a small batch of about 20 cases through about four cycles, then go to the chamber casting. You can then have regular dies modified or swap the bbl. Just take some time to learn how to measure your brass and read up on advanced reloading while you go.

Take more cycles on smaller batches instead of looking to go large batch progressive is advice I give all beginners. You will know when you are ready for batch loading if you are being honest with yourself.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

The sequence I use is take brass with left hand and dip neck in Imperial dry lube media and pull it out. Then grab neck with right hand, lightly touch Imperial wax with left index finger then rub case with finger and thumb all around the case up to shoulder and body junction then size. I keep a microfiber towel in my lap to clean case and hands after sizing.