Need Help with Revolver Wrist Breaking

[Kittitas George]

I'm trying to shoot a S&W 686 w/5" barrel. At 20 yards the POI is 16" low. The "fix it" chart says I'm breaking my wrist, is there a book, manual, pamphlet explaining how to correct this problem. I tried shooting with my hand supported, still shooting low. I also shot my S&W M-27 and I was shooting low the same amount. I don't remember that gun ever shooting low when using it a few years back. I have a HUVIZ front sight and an XS rear sight, both are factory height, on the 686. I can see these better than the factory sights with the 83 year old eyes. The last notes I have on shooting the M-27 are from 2013, have I gone down hill that far? I certainly don't want to shoot 16" low on a Mammoth or T-Rex.

 

[Hipshoot]

Could be that you are yanking down on the handgun(s) in order to fight recoil and not aware of it!

 

[itchyTF]

Only load 4 or 5 and “spin” the cylinder. You’ll see what your wrist is doing.

 

[Tommie]

Could be that you are yanking down on the handgun(s) in order to fight recoil and not aware of it!

Very possible. George, maybe have someone else give the gun a try to see if the POI changes

 

[K22]

First thing is to verify that it's you, not the firearm / load.

Fire a string of shots from the bench with the pistol trigger guard (not the barrel) supported on sandbags with two hands. The goal is to get the most stable position to eliminate as much shooter error as possible. If the pistol shoots to center with sight adjustment, then it is not the pistol / load.

Breaking the wrist down is a common error. It is due to due lack of follow-through and anticipating the recoil.

A mentor can help sort this out. A common exercise is to have someone to load 2 to 3 rounds in the cylinder, so you don't know which chamber has a live round. Then fire all the chamber of the pistol. If you are breaking the wrist down, it will be clear and obvious when the hammer falls on an empty chamber.

To correct this error requires dry fire practice focusing on follow through. If you have a 22 revolver, this is the best way to practice follow through with live ammo. Also, you can repeat the aforementioned exercise. When the hammer drops on any empty chamber and you do not break the wrist down, you are on the way to correcting this error. However, even experienced shooter now and then, make this mistake.

The best book ever written on precision pistol shooting in my experience is the Army Pistol Marksmanship Manual. It teaches all the basic fundamentals of precision pistol shooting.

 

[TAJ45]

Seconds on the MTU manual.
Also second the ball and dummy practice drill.

 

[Oso]

Like others mentioned there is good chance you are breaking/dropping you wrist when you think the trigger will break.

Try taking shot single action (manually cock trigger for each shot) to reduce trigger pull.

If you reload then make some “powder puff” loads going 650-700fps. Almost no recoil on my 4” 686 so should help get past the mental flinch.

 

[Ranger188]

Have someone else shoot it that you trust can shoot a pistol.
That would solve one possible issue.

 

[Fast14riot]

Is this shooting SA or DA?

 

[Krogen]

I struggle with the same thing @Kittitas George. Whenever this subject comes up, some folks give ideas on how to identify the problem. As do I, you probably already know the problem exists. Shooting a red dot in Precision Pistol makes the problem painfully obvious. That darned dot goes off somewhere undesired just as I press (yank??) the trigger. I can see it when I have a problem. But, what to do about it?

For me, it's a mind game, well, a mind battle. I have to focus on follow through. I pretend the red dot or iron sights are locked on the bullseye. Or that the dot is drilling a hole in the X. Think of a dowel rod extending from the muzzle to the target, glued to the X and it won't let the gun move. Then consider your grip. Think of the gun and your hand cast in concrete. No wrist movement, no palming or changing grip. Now that you have this all in your head - your hand, the gun and target all glued together what else is there to do except press the trigger? Yeah, not so easy for sure.

Another approach is to continue with locking up your gun and hand but purposely move the aligned sight(s) across the bullseye. Somehow trying to stay too steady brings on the twitches. But a slow movement and timing the trigger press seems to interrupt those twitchy tendencies.

Just my 20 m$. Some of these ideas may work for you. They don't always work for me or I'd be nailing 10 X's on each target. But these techniques do help when my gun hand develops a mind of its own.

 

[charlie b]

I don't shoot my pistols that much, which makes the problem worse for me.

It is recoil that causes this. I involuntarily tighten my grip as I pull the trigger. It was easy to see when I had a revolver. As described above, load 2 rounds in a random location in the cylinder, spin it, and start shooting. If someone else is there to load a magazine you can do the same thing with dummy rounds (or snap caps). Or, not as effective, load three magazines with dummy rounds in different positions, then shuffle the mags.

The best solution that helped me was the grip tension. It has become more of a problem with age. I try to workout more often since I passed 70 but the strength still isn't what it used to be, and recoil has more of effect on the body.

 

[6.5 forever]

Is this shooting SA or DA?

Huge difference in this. Might me the problem

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Or as simple as you're wondering/thinking is it shooting the same as you remember. So you are looking for the shot impact, must drop the sight out of the way to see impact, low shot results.

 

[Oso]

Assuming that your pistol sights are properly aligned and this is not an equipment issue. If you are experiencing a flinch, whether an involuntary subconscious fight/fight response or anticipation of recoil, it is a brain game. This can be overcome/ trained away by lots and lots of practice usually over a long period of time. In the short term you can trick the brain into forgetting about the perceived risk/threat by shooting 22lr (minimal noise or concussive force with minimal recoil). You can also practice dry firing drills to retrain your brain.

Start your range session shooting several mags of 22lr. This will lull your brain into forgetting about subconscious responses to potential concussive forces or recoil. After a few mags of 22lr your brain will relax because there hasn’t been any of the expected threats. Now you can transition over to you .38/.357 without the flinch. If the flinch starts cropping back up during your shooting session then switch back to 22lr.

As I mentioned above, if possible download your .38/.357 loads. A softer shooting load will also help you work through any issues so that you can simply focus on the sights and target. Depending on your strength and also the trigger weight on your pistol, shooting it double action might be a further hindrance. Until you are comfortable and consistently hitting on target, cock the trigger for each shot (single action). Try to just focus on holding the front blade on the target ignoring the trigger as you smoothly pull it. If your brain doesn’t know when the gun will fire it is harder for it to preemptively respond.

The mental effort to quiet your brain and disconnect its natural response can be difficult to overcome.

 

[divingin]

I'm trying to shoot a S&W 686 w/5" barrel. At 20 yards the POI is 16" low. The "fix it" chart says I'm breaking my wrist, is there a book, manual, pamphlet explaining how to correct this problem. I tried shooting with my hand supported, still shooting low. I also shot my S&W M-27 and I was shooting low the same amount. I don't remember that gun ever shooting low when using it a few years back. I have a HUVIZ front sight and an XS rear sight, both are factory height, on the 686. I can see these better than the factory sights with the 83 year old eyes. The last notes I have on shooting the M-27 are from 2013, have I gone down hill that far? I certainly don't want to shoot 16" low on a Mammoth or T-Rex.

I've been a bullseye pistol shooter since the 80's (though there was a substantial break in there somewhere.) The first piece of advice I'll give you is that those guide charts are largely worthless.

The best advice I can give you is to dry fire occasionally while shooting and look at what's happening. If the sights move at all while dry firing, it's you (not judging - you're setting off an explosion in your hand; it's natural to react to the impending action. The trick is learning to ignore all that.)

A good training exercise is to lose the aim point on the target: Rather than shooting at a bullseye target or small sticker, put up a large blank sheet of paper, preferably far enough away that it's difficult to see existing bullet holes. Taking the shot, make sure you are on the sights, keeping them lined up, and putting the aligned sight picture somewhere around the middle of that blank sheet (it's not that critical where.) Again, dry firing between live shots may be telling in whether or not you're moving prior to the shot release. This should (assuming it works for you) tell you two things: 1) Where the sights are on the target is less critical than #2; and 2) with a handgun, sight alignment at the moment of ignition is the most critical factor. Paraphrasing those two once you're back on the target side of the paper, front to rear sight alignment is much more important accuracy-wise than where on the target those sights are.

 

[jds holler]

When I start getting hinkey with my pistol shooting, I simply shoot about fifty carefully aimed, double action, shots -- with no ammo!

It's amazing how quickly you can see the problem and fix it. This is of course assuming that the sights are adjusted correctly and the load agrees with them.

 

[chop house]

Another approach is to continue with locking up your gun and hand but purposely move the aligned sight(s) across the bullseye. Somehow trying to stay too steady brings on the twitches. But a slow movement and timing the trigger press seems to interrupt those twitchy tendencies.

A good training exercise is to lose the aim point on the target: Rather than shooting at a bullseye target or small sticker, put up a large blank sheet of paper,

Both of these are classic drills to curing target panic when archery shooting. Twitches, yips, spasms whatever you choose to call them, will destroy your mind in golf, archery, and shooting. Move your mind away from the target and to the technique. Fwiw.

 

[Forum Boss]

1. See if there is a difference shooting Single Action vs. Double action.
2. Practice with a .22 LR revolver.
3. Try your revolver after installing a different grip with finger ridges.
4. Reduce load. -- When I competed in steel matches inside 30 yards, I was loading a 110-grainer at about 600 fps.
5. If you are right-handed but left-eye dominant, try rotating the gun slightly counter clockwise.
6. Improve your sound protection -- run good plugs UNDER muffs to gain another 3-5 dB noise reduction.
7. If you have pretty big hands, try pulling the trigger with your MIDDLE finger, not the index finger. That can take some practice but there is less "pull-down" effect.

 

[TAJ45]

What Divingin aid re dry fire.
This is about what l was going to suggest. But before l delve into that further, KNOW that the grip strength is in 2 fingers. The middle 2.
Pull those straight back, little finger could be severed, non existent for the help it actually gives. As mentioned, when tightening grip, anticipating recoil, a bad thing regardless, the pinky can be a very negative input.
Now, do what all of the top shooting competitors do....DRY FIRE EVERY day, blank wall, blank pc of paper, shoot sight alignment. Get sight picture first then shift to sight alignment only...per SAMTU manual.

Issue a decree of divorcement separating forever the grip from the trigger pull. Grip is STATIC, STATIC, STATIC.

Pull straight back w the 2 middle fingers, mash the trigger, over n over until you have nothing more than the slightest front sight quiver when the hammer falls.
A solid 5 minutes once or twice a day will work wonders. Same for weak hand....you will be amazed how easy it is to apply the fundamentals to the hand that has no bad habits.

 

[divingin]

Both of these are classic drills to curing target panic when archery shooting. Twitches, yips, spasms whatever you choose to call them, will destroy your mind in golf, archery, and shooting. Move your mind away from the target and to the technique. Fwiw.

I believe it. I've dabbled in archery but never pushed to really do anything with it. Many of the techniques between firearms and bows cross over pretty directly.

I'm going to take the opportunity to add a souple of things:

I should have added in my post above one other technique that may help: Get used to starting building pressure on the trigger, and use a constant pressure buildup through release. Once you get that down, you can start your release, and then ignore trigger control and switch your concentration to keeping the sights aligned where you want; the shot will go whenever, and you won't be as focused on exactly when that is.

And learn to shoot your wobble; don't try to time the shot or be too precise - that just leads to trouble.

Live firing you can tell a lot by how the recoil feels when the shot goes: a muddy, indistinct recoil means that you were probably moving on the shot. A correctly released shot will feel like someone smacked the muzzle with a hammer - a short, sharp recoil impulse.

Hope this helps.