NEED HELP from 6x47 Lapua shooters, sizing down from 6.5x47 (hard closing bolt)

[bender338]

Hey guys,

I took delivery of SAC 6x47 Alpa 2 action rifle and tried to make some brass for it from 6.5x47 lapua by running it through Forster FL 6x47 lapua sizing die, with cam over on my press. I can't get the neck to be 100% sized down to 6mm. The die leaves about 10% of the neck unsized.

Here is the issue. When I try to chamber an empty round, its difficult to close the bolt. After marking the neck with marker, its rubbing exactly at the junction of the sized neck and unsized 10%.

Should I just fire the rounds by closing the bolt with more pressure, and the cases will fire form to my chamber? Can I cause any damage to the bolt/rifle/brass by firing it?

For those who are shooting 6x47 lapua, how are you sizing the neck down all the way??

I already tried lowering the sizing die and still can't get that last part of the neck sized.

Did anyone have this issue with their 6x47 rifle?

Thanks.

 

[22DASHER]

Re: NEED HELP with 6x47 lapua

I use the Forster FL non bushing sizing die in my neck down process as well. I just necked it down far enough to get slight resistance on bolt closure, load and fire. So, no I don't size all the way down the neck either.

 

[bender338]

Re: NEED HELP with 6x47 lapua

Thank you.

I'm not sure if I can call it "slight" resistance in my rifle. I can close the bolt, but I have to apply a pretty good amount of force.

After the first firing, does that resistance go away?

I adjusted the FL die all the way down and there is still some neck unsized. Not sure what other options I have. I guess the chamber is cut very tight and unless I find a way to size the neck down all the way, the resistance will be there.

Will it have any negative impact on accuracy?

 

[22DASHER]

Re: NEED HELP with 6x47 lapua

You may have to remove some material off the top of the shell holder. I have had to do that before. Are you getting any shoulder bump on the necked down casings?

I don't think your resistance will go away if you cannot size the case all the way, especially since you cannot get it that way right now.

I cannot answer the accuracy question but your rifle can...

 

[Erik Cortina]

Re: NEED HELP with 6x47 lapua

Sounds like you have bushing die. If so, look at bushing and if one side has less of a chamfer than the other put that side down. Also, tighten stem holding bushing down so that there is no play on the bushing. If it still doesn't work, try to sand down one side of the bushig to reduce the amount of chamfer on it.

If you can't get bushing tight, stack another bushing on top of it to act as a spacer. Remove expanding ball from die.

 

[bender338]

Re: NEED HELP with 6x47 lapua

Sounds like you have bushing die. If so, look at bushing and if one side has less of a chamfer than the other put that side down. Also, tighten stem holding bushing down so that there is no play on the bushing. If it still doesn't work, try to sand down one side of the bushig to reduce the amount of chamfer on it.

If you can't get bushing tight, stack another bushing on top of it to act as a spacer. Remove expanding ball from die.

I have a FL sizing die without bushings. I see many people just using the FL Forster die and regular shell holder, sizing the 6.5 case to 6mm without any extra work.

Will the brass fire form after the first firing and the bolt close normally?

How is everyone else sizing down the 6.5 case to 6mm?

 

[bender338]

Re: NEED HELP with 6x47 lapua

You may have to remove some material off the top of the shell holder. I have had to do that before. Are you getting any shoulder bump on the necked down casings?

I don't think your resistance will go away if you cannot size the case all the way, especially since you cannot get it that way right now.

I cannot answer the accuracy question but your rifle can...

I am NOT getting any shoulder bumb from new lapua brass. Maybe its because its new? I'm thinking of just firing the reloads the way they are and hopefully the brass will fire form and solve the issue?

Can the hard closing bolt increase chamber pressure to unsafe condition?

Thanks for the help!

 

[bender338]

Re: NEED HELP with 6x47 lapua

 

[bender338]

I am over reacting to the bolt closing harder? Shoot I just ignore it and go out and shoot it?

Thanks guys!

 

['Freak]

If that’s a standard full length size die, not a FL/neck bushing die, then it was cut that much overly long in the base to shoulder area. Using what you got now you’ll not be able to full length size the case body or the full length of the neck or ever touch much less nudge the shoulder back far enough to have the brass properly fit the base to shoulder length of that chamber.

 

[Erik Cortina]

From the picture it looks like if you are using a bushing die, your die is not screwed all the way down, die too long, or chamber too short.

The issue with firing it now is that you can gall your action lugs by having to force bolt to close.

If the bottom of the die touching the shellholder? If so, stick a feeler gauge between the bottom of the case and the shell holder to get the brass to go further into the die.

Do you have a die for a 6BR or any other 6mm shorter than 6x47 Lapua?

 

[mikecr]

Make sure your trim length is sufficient to clear chamber end, and that your now thicker necks are allowing clearance also.
I think firing will pull the neck back a bit(with shoulder sharpening) & you'll be in better condition as far as neck-shoulder junction.
I'd fire one & see where it goes.

 

[CatShooter]

I am over reacting to the bolt closing harder? Shoot I just ignore it and go out and shoot it?

Thanks guys!

Yup... the cases are fine - just shoot them.

When I am forming cases, I deliberately set the dies up so the case fits tight in the chamber - it keeps the cases from stretching on the first firing (which often does the most permanent damage).

It is why people make "false shoulders" when making cases to fire form.

 

[Ein]

I'd be hesitant to say "just shoot it" without closing the bolt on your gun personally. I'd suggest getting some 240 grit sandpaper and putting it flat on a table. Put your shell holder on it with the top side of the shell holder against the grit. Make figure eights with light to moderate pressure for a while and size another piece of brass after just slightly lowering the die. Stop when you are comfortable with the amount of pressure it takes to close the bolt.

Remember you've altered this shell holder and it may size brass too small if you use it with another die/gun/clambering.

Just a note, my brass looks almost identical after initial sizing, but I think my die might size another .002-.005" down.

 

[CatShooter]

I'd be hesitant to say "just shoot it" without closing the bolt on your gun personally. I'd suggest getting some 240 grit sandpaper and putting it flat on a table. Put your shell holder on it with the top side of the shell holder against the grit. Make figure eights with light to moderate pressure for a while and size another piece of brass after just slightly lowering the die. Stop when you are comfortable with the amount of pressure it takes to close the bolt.

Remember you've altered this shell holder and it may size brass too small if you use it with another die/gun/clambering.

Just a note, my brass looks almost identical after initial sizing, but I think my die might size another .002-.005" down.

VERY BAD ADVICE!!!

It premature to make a decision like this, without the necessary information. You cannot get that information until you have fired cases.

 

[Ein]

CatShooter, What am I missing?

Except for the possibility of the case being too long for the chamber, or the neck diameter of a loaded round being too large, I don't see another way of handling a case that wont chamber, but leaves a witness mark like that on brass.

 

[CatShooter]

CatShooter, What am I missing?

Except for the possibility of the case being too long for the chamber, or the neck diameter of a loaded round being too large, I don't see another way of handling a case that wont chamber, but leaves a witness mark like that on brass.

First, there is no indication that the case is too long for the chamber. Chambers are cut long on purpose. In more than 50 years of loading, I have NEVER seen a chamber that was to short for standard cases.

And, the solution to cases that are too long, is a case trimmer, not "sanding" a shell holder.

Second, there is no indication that the neck is too thick, and "sanding" a shell holder would not solve that problem, IF it existed. Thick necks are solved by turning the neck, not "sanding" a shell holder.

Third, the problem is NOT that the cases won't chamber... he says that they are tight. Look at the photo...



... the tight spot is the bright ring right at the junction at the neck and shoulder - this is VERY common when forming cases from one chamber size to another. The shoulder is not touching anything, so why would anyone want to push it back even more, by "sanding" the shell holder.

I set up my forming dies on this 20x30°x45 to be a very hard bolt closure fit on the first firing - the fired cases fit just fine.

These 220 Wilson Arrow cases were made by a dumb bunny - they are badly oil dented and unusable.

They were made from very nice (and expensive) Norma .220 Swift cases.

They are going to be reformed back to original .220 Swift (A 220 Wilson Arrow "Un Improved" ).
The Arrow shoulders are 170 thou SHORTER than the .220 Swift shoulders in the chamber.

They were sized in a die that was set up so the Arrow case is a tight force fit into the Swift chamber. They will blow out perfectly and become fine .220 Swift cases.

Tight fitting cases when forming is not a bad thing... it is a very desirable thing - many cases start their road to destruction on the first firing in a loose fitting chamber.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Catshooter, the OP stated that it is difficult to close the bolt. I agree that a snug fit is desirable for fireforming cases, but a bolt that is difficult to close is not desirable.

He can sand down the shellholder until he gets a snug fit and then he can fireform the brass.

After brass is formed, he can use his F/L sizing die to neck size until brass fits snug in the chamber, then he can set up his F/L size to bump shoulders .002" every time from there on.

 

[CatShooter]

Catshooter, the OP stated that it is difficult to close the bolt. I agree that a snug fit is desirable for fireforming cases, but a bolt that is difficult to close is not desirable.

He can sand down the shellholder until he gets a snug fit and then he can fireform the brass.

Difficult, does not have a value - if the bolt closes, it is fine. If he "sands" down a shell holder (how much??)... and pushes the shoulder back, when it does not need to be pushed back - it creates more problems, and does not solve the first one.

There is no problem with the shoulder - the shoulder is not even touching the chamber - it is a tiny place on the neck/shoulder junction.

 

[Ein]

Yeah, we're on the same page, he probably has no length or neck issues. "Snug" is good more than that is unnecessary in this case. Bender didn't seem comfortable with how much force it took to close his bolt. Without being there, neither of us have any idea if he's a 250 pounder leaning on the bolt handle or a twiggy adolescent with a limp wrist. If there's ANY resistance, his brass will form fine. The initial firing irons out that little false shoulder. I'm forming the same stuff with the same dies and brass and it comes out beautifully with very slight resistance to bolt closing.

Bender, enjoy shooting that sweet 6!