Need clarification regarding Z1 P1 in Quickload

[savagedasher]

I see 4895 as looking it as a good powder using the z1 and the Pm My testing I found to to shoot good as long as tempeture did change . The load shoot good when I arived and took it out of the car where the temperature was 76 . When it set on the bench and the temperature was in the high 90 it didn't shoot the same .
So ask your self was it the z1 and pm that was wrong or was it the powder that didn't like the temperature change.
Merry Christmas Larry

 

[dmoran]

I see 4895 as looking it as a good powder using the z1 and the Pm My testing I found to to shoot good as long as tempeture did change . The load shoot good when I arived and took it out of the car where the temperature was 76 . When it set on the bench and the temperature was in the high 90 it didn't shoot the same .
So ask your self was it the z1 and pm that was wrong or was it the powder that didn't like the temperature change.

I read your reply as 2 completely separate scenario's:
1) QL predication of regressive burn to peak pressure
2) Field results of powder temperature sensitivity
That have nothing to do with each other.

Besides, always read your stating that the better Z1 & Pmax line up, the more accuracy can be expected, and suggesting that any load muck up to QL that can line up the Z1-Pmax relationship on top each other or nearly on top of each other, will ultimately yield better accuracy then those with a "gap".
Which is not holding much water in a 6Dasher, when mocking up proven loads from powders faster then the H4350 burn zone.

 

[savagedasher]

Tom
You could be right or wrong
That all depends on the fizzle rate of the powder . Hope you understand what that is.
Smile Merry Christmas. Larry

 

[fredo]

For the record...
I also have a few combos that don't look 'great' on the z1 /Pmax curve, but they sho' nuff shoot & perform to my liking. The way I found that out was the same, as always. The target don't lie! Course, I'm not a BR shooter, just someone who likes to tinker & plink... and actually hold my rifle when I shoot it...

This thread has made obvious, that:
1. if BR is your discipline, and world records are the ultimate goal, don't bother referencing QL beyond a casual glance. BR is a super specialized sport, unto itself, and has its own database of knowledge to pull from. If it works, it works, and smart guys use what works...within their chosen discipline.

2. if you're a wildcatter in search of reference data for oddball cartridges, or just a general reloader who likes to compile info from various sources, then QL might offer something of value. It has for me, and I'm sure, for many other (non-BR) shooters. Course, you'll still need to do your due diligence in developing a safe load for your rifle...

Guidelines are just that, a 'guide'. If savagedasher said somewhere that a single line z1 /Pmax was the path to ultimate accuracy, all the time, everytime, then I disagree with that sentiment. Things just ain't that easy. Just don't make sense to believe in absolutes, with so many variables in play...

 

[savagedasher]

For the record...
I also have a few combos that don't look 'great' on the z1 /Pmax curve, but they sho' nuff shoot & perform to my liking. The way I found that out was the same, as always. The target don't lie! Course, I'm not a BR shooter, just someone who likes to tinker & plink... and actually hold my rifle when I shoot it...

This thread has made obvious, that:
1. if BR is your discipline, and world records are the ultimate goal, don't bother referencing QL beyond a casual glance. BR is a super specialized sport, unto itself, and has its own database of knowledge to pull from. If it works, it works, and smart guys use what works...within their chosen discipline.

2. if you're a wildcatter in search of reference data for oddball cartridges, or just a general reloader who likes to compile info from various sources, then QL might offer something of value. It has for me, and I'm sure, for many other (non-BR) shooters. Course, you'll still need to do your due diligence in developing a safe load for your rifle...

Guidelines are just that, a 'guide'. If savagedasher said somewhere that a single line z1 /Pmax was the path to ultimate accuracy, all the time, everytime, then I disagree with that sentiment. Things just ain't that easy. Just don't make sense to believe in absolutes, with so many variables in play...

That is the same as I feel about one that doesn't . More records are set by conditions then anything else . That a fact . Larry

 

[Davey Boy]

I'm just a casual shooter, 6 months or so each summer, to cold the rest of the time.
I was just curious about Z1 P1 and the relationship to accuracy. Wouldn't you know it the load I find accurate the lines match up. I have many MANY more where they don't line up. So I won't be chasing the lines so to speak, I will make note of them. Targets are the final judge of a good load.
Seems I caused a bit of a controversy my first post.
Thanks for all responses, I view QL as just a tool to a better decision on where to start load developement.

 

[savagedasher]

I'm just a casual shooter, 6 months or so each summer, to cold the rest of the time.
I was just curious about Z1 P1 and the relationship to accuracy. Wouldn't you know it the load I find accurate the lines match up. I have many MANY more where they don't line up. So I won't be chasing the lines so to speak, I will make note of them. Targets are the final judge of a good load.
Seems I caused a bit of a controversy my first post.
Thanks for all responses, I view QL as just a tool to a better decision on where to start load developement.

The best reference I can give. And if you don't understand What I am try explaining It probably me .
A cartrage is the same as a internal engine
Powder burn rate and time it burns is I feel is critical The z1 and The pmax Is where the are doing at the same time . That is what it takes in a internal combustion need to be the most efficient . Is it the holly grail no but I feel it helps . Same with ES Many disagree on that also . I hope what I said makes sense not the likely not . Larry

 

[SheepDog]

As long as it works for you and the way you use it then it's great. Other shooters are going to do things the way that works for them. That is what reloading is all about.

 

[savagedasher]

As long as it works for you and the way you use it then it's great. Other shooters are going to do things the way that works for them. That is what reloading is all about.

As they should I passed the information on if they don't use it it isn't because they weren't told Larry

 

[rifleman700]

Screenshot of my 87Vmax load for my 6x45AI, showing lines real close.
You can see the z1 (labeled at top) and Pmax (bottom) lines are nearly indistinguishable.

This load hammers, and projected velocity happens to be spot on...

Coincidence? Could very well be. But, in my messin' with QL, there sure seems to be a correlation to finding a winning powder/bullet combo by paying attention to that graph.

For what its worth...

No coincidence. Look at your barrel time as it is probably close to an ideal OBT.

 

[rifleman700]

QL works very well with my Oehler 43 PBL.

 

[savagedasher]

No coincidence. Look at your barrel time as it is probably close to an ideal OBT.

Mine never is tuners Change everything Larry

 

[rifleman700]

Mine never is tuners Change everything Larry

You know now you have started the debate as far as how close to the OBT numbers is good enough?

 

[savagedasher]

You know now you have started the debate as far as how close to the OBT numbers is good enough?

I know I shoot the same load in 5 different dashers with 5 different barrel lingth and 4 different barrel companies . That would make barrel time being what day and time I shoot them lol Larry