Need Advice - Rem Bolt Extraction

[hogpatrol]

If it's such a pi$$ poor design please tell us why you believe the Army AND the Marines are still using such garbage?????? Changing the extractor because a case is sticking is like changing a tire because your car wont start.....good god ya'll!!!!!!!!

Not trying to be a smart ass here but you'd have to go back to the early days of Vietnam and the error prone M-16s to answer that question It's called politics, low bidder and having an armament factory in a certain Senator's district. Look up the history behind the Osprey. Safety and reliability aren't even in the equation.

 

[Link]

I have a question, a new barrel with old brass fireformed in old barrel, different chamber? thanks

 

[jdh47]

In 223 Remington extractors have a tendency to cut into the rim a bit as they cam into battery and ride over the rim, especially with Lapua cases. That is not what you are describing. The extractor thing has been beat to death for many years and the original design is plenty robust or it would have been ditched by now.

I would take the bolt out and try to fit new, resized and fired cases into the extractor cavity. Make sure that it can fully engage the rim of the cases. It could be that the extractor might be worn or debris could be keeping the extractor from getting a good grip on the case head. You might need a new extractor and yours is likely a pinned one.

Joe

 

[msinc]

Not trying to be a smart ass here but you'd have to go back to the early days of Vietnam and the error prone M-16s to answer that question It's called politics, low bidder and having an armament factory in a certain Senator's district. Look up the history behind the Osprey. Safety and reliability aren't even in the equation.

I totally get what you are saying...but, you would be hard pressed to find someone that has owned, shot, tried to wear out, burned out, messed up and abused, worked on and shot some more the Model 700 than me. I have only ever had the one problem with a Remington 700 extractor and that is they will break if you really stick a case in the chamber and force it....by design, it's got no choice. In all my 700's and all my years have I had them with Sako's and M-16's???? Yep, even had one with a CRF pre-64 style once. One of those things, I just had to try them all. But, like a lot of things I thought I "had to have".....they did nothing for me either. First wife comes to mind....but not those Mexican girls. God I love Mexico!!!!!

 

[hogpatrol]

Roger that. I've never had an issue with the Rem extractors. Then again, I've never shot 5000 rounds out of the same one either. I think the OPs issues could be the result of multiple issues, chamber, dies, number of times the brass has been reloaded with a not up to snuff die, extractor or something not obvious. It will be interesting to see how his problem is fixed.

 

[swd]

I've had more than few 700's come across my bench. The ones that chew up cases generally can use a little time with a Craytex wheel smoothing out some of the burs and sharp edges on both the extractor and the bolt recess. If it's a factory barrel the chambers are notorious for needing a good smoothing out and polish. These two things solve an awful lot problems on a 700 and plenty of other factory rifles for that matter.

 

[rayjay]

I've had more than few 700's come across my bench. The ones that chew up cases generally can use a little time with a Craytex wheel smoothing out some of the burs and sharp edges on both the extractor and the bolt recess. If it's a factory barrel the chambers are notorious for needing a good smoothing out and polish. These two things solve an awful lot problems on a 700 and plenty of other factory rifles for that matter.

I have a couple of new stripped factory bolts that I bought and on one of them after I installed the extractor I found that I couldn't hardly remove the case from the bolt recess [ no ejector ]. The area of the bolt recess straight across from the extractor was very rough and the extractor pushed the case over into this area and I couldn't rotate the case to the right and out without using excessive force. I smoothed that raised section and fixed the issue.

 

[K22]

There are no marks on the body of the fired cases so I don't see evidence of a burr.

I used new cases when I started shooting the rebarrled rifle. I never mix cases between rifles. New cases extract without issue. It's only after loading them 3-4 times that the extraction issue appeared. The case are not "stuck" in the chamber. I don't need to "pound" them out. Failure to extract doesn't happen every time. The one's that fail to extract come out easily by droping a 6" piece of cleaning rod down the bore or pulling out with a slim rod that has a small hook on it. Sometimes they just lay in the mag well after extraction which I can live with but not extractor from the chamber. The latter is like shooting a flint lock, i.e. dropping a rod down the bore; not good for hunting.

Cases are full length resized with a .002" shoulder bump. I've removed the fire pin to check the ease of chambering cases, only slight normal resistance as I experience with all my other rifles.

The front action screw I will check however there is no binding of the bolt when I work it. No binding marks on the bolt although the bolt is worn. I lube the lugs.

Rifle is in gunsmith's shop. I'll let you know how all this turns out. This rifle shoot great, in the 1/2 moa range with tailored reloads; not that that's relevant to the extraction issue.

I will measure the base of a fired vs a sized case. The fired cases are not bulged on one side which you sometimes see on non concentric chambers.

Will consider a small base die if gunsmith can't fix the problem.

Thanks again for all the imput.

PS: At least I'm not hunting dangerous game with this rifle. Never been attacked by a ghog or coyote, at least not yet. Worse case senario - I'll continue my flint lock routine in the field if I can't get it fixed. Rifle is too accurate to give up on plus I've got six hundred dollars in a new barrel.

 

[msinc]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....kayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.......let me ask you to please clarify something real quick......could you please answer this, because it just occurred to me that I might be misunderstanding something you have left out of all this.....
When you say "failure to extract" do you mean that the case will not come out of the chamber or do you mean that the bolt looses its grip on the case and separates from it completely when you are in the process of pulling it back after a round is fired????? You could call either one "failure to extract", many people do.
So, just to clarify...failure to extract {because the case is stuck in the chamber and you cant get it out until you drop a bar down the barrel} at which time the bolt, which is still attached to the case via the extractor is one kind of failure.
Failure to extract because the extractor is unable to maintain contact with the rim is another. Two failures, two different causes. I went back and read your post...you never say whether or not the bolt stays with the case or the bolt lets go and you just have a case in the chamber that needs to simply be popped out.
Before we proceed with this rifles issue/issues lets get this out of the way please.

 

[snert]

The OP's last post reallygives a better picture. Sounds like the case is left in the chamber and the bolt is back.

Extractor.

 

[swd]

New cases extract without issue. It's only after loading them 3-4 times that the extraction issue appeared. The case are not "stuck" in the chamber.

Will consider a small base die if gunsmith can't fix the problem.

This is pretty classic not being sized down enough at the base. And or the chamber finish. I'd bet a beer a small base die will take care of your problem.

 

[msinc]

I don't know fellas....but I know this, if I have a problem with a rifle I for darn sure try to make everything as clear as I can. That way the folks that do try to help have the clearest picture of what's going on...all of what's going on. Leave out the part about whether or not the bolt stays hooked to the case.....come on buddy...did that part just happen to slip your mind??????? I'm startin' ta think we been trolled.

 

[hogpatrol]

I don't know fellas....but I know this, if I have a problem with a rifle I for darn sure try to make everything as clear as I can. That way the folks that do try to help have the clearest picture of what's going on...all of what's going on. Leave out the part about whether or not the bolt stays hooked to the case.....come on buddy...did that part just happen to slip your mind??????? I'm startin' ta think we been trolled.

I re-read his first post, the p.s. He said he DROPS a SIX INCH PIECE OF ALUMINUM CLEANING ROD and the case falls out. That's practically no weight and no force at all to remove the case. A fast read, the words stuck case and it was just ASSUMED the problem was a hard stuck case that had to be forced out.
As far as the issue being after a few reloads, maybe the die is a little wide at the bottom and the brass being work hardened, isn't taking a set and is springing back. I still believe the primary cause is a worn out extractor. At any rate, this will be a learning experience for me.

 

[snert]

Loaded up to 16 times??? Okay.

I agree, if it is slipping after 4 reloads, it is a small chamber combined with a crap extractor.

 

[gotcha]

I re-read his first post, the p.s. He said he DROPS a SIX INCH PIECE OF ALUMINUM CLEANING ROD and the case falls out. That's practically no weight and no force at all to remove the case. A fast read, the words stuck case and it was just ASSUMED the problem was a hard stuck case that had to be forced out.
As far as the issue being after a few reloads, maybe the die is a little wide at the bottom and the brass being work hardened, isn't taking a set and is springing back. I still believe the primary cause is a worn out extractor. At any rate, this will be a learning experience for me.

+1 I've got at least 7K rounds through a re-barreled .223 Rem, I've never had to use a SB die even with battered range brass from full autos.(after I've culled the really nasty stuff) ........ After EVERY PD shoot I clean the bolt face and extractor with a brass brush particularly UNDER the extractor and blow out with non-chlorinated brake cleaner. Amazing how much trash can accumulate under the extractor. The trash can easily cock the little .223 case as it is chambered. Causing the rim to be beat up and occasionally stick one in the chamber .............. The cratex wheel treatment might work but, you have to remove & replace the extractor to do it properly. The OP may need his Smith to accomplish this. Anyway, that's my spin and time will tell what fixes the problem......... I'll be learning too hogpatrol