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Need Advice on Shipping Firearms

I ship mine myself, pretty simple really. I was a little freaked out the first time but followed the rules and have since figured out it's not that bad. Previous poster mentioned it but some state laws do affect this process greatly. Assuming you live in a free state, and are shipping to a free state, the following applies. Otherwise there may be additional requirements/restrictions etc.

For those using USPS, I thought you had to use priority express to use USPS? Makes it a lot more costly if that's true, but I've never tried.

Anyways, I always use UPS, and I create my own labels (for everything, not just firearms) through a third party as it saves a lot of money since they get great rates. As long as you follow the UPS rules, it's super simple and not crazy expensive. Last rifle I shipped was about 9lbs (plus 3lbs of packaging), 4 feet long, sent it 3 day select for about $38 which included $700 worth of insurance, and adult signature (a requirement for firearms that adds about $7 to the cost of shipping). UPS ground would have been about $10 less. Unless it's a handgun you don't have to notify them, just drop it off and go. Handguns also require overnight, which is unfortunate, but at least it's a smaller lighter box.

Here are the UPS rules, note, you must use scheduled pickup or take to UPS customer center, no using drop boxes etc:

How To Ship Firearms | UPS - United States

Information from UPS about how to ship firearms, which are considered a special-care shipment and require some extra steps before packing them up and shipping.
www.ups.com



Often FFLs have their own rules so you'll want to call them to get their requirements. Some for example refuse to accept shipments from non-FFLs, so that's a deal breaker. Some want you to put a copy of your driver's license in the package, etc. I would call them and ask about special requirements before you ship it to them. That will also give them a heads up that a firearm is incoming for whoever the person you're selling it to is.

Also ask them for their first 3 and last 5 digits of their FFL number. Then you can verify they are a legit and active FFL here:

I did have one tell me once he wouldn't give me any part of his FFL number since I wasn't an FFL, but I verified he was still okay with me shipping it to him. Weird since those numbers are publicly available, oh well, found it online pretty easily and verified he was legit, then away it went. Doing this verification is also a good way to make sure you have the address that you're shipping to correct, as sometimes your buyer might goof that up when they give it to you. I've had that happen to me once as well, thankfully I looked up the license, changed the address, no biggie.

If you don't have the FFL's license number, you can easily find it here:

Federal Firearms Listings | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

www.atf.gov www.atf.gov
 
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Couple words of caution.

1. With UPS and FEDEX you are not buying insurance. You are buying additional declared value. Read the receipts. There is a difference.

2. Both have explicit written instructions on how to package firearms. 2" solid foam all the way around is the norm. You need to follow their instructions. They have grounds to deny if you do not follow the requirements.

3. Both consider manufacturers original shipping boxes as "one time use" only.

4. If you use a 3rd party shipper such as a Mail Box, they have the claim not you!! You have to give all your documentation to them and let them file the claim and hopefully they are as passionate about your money as you are. Again, read the receipt they give you.

5. IF there is damage, have the receiver maintain all original shipping boxes, wrapping, foam etc and ask the shipper in writing (UPS/FEDEX/USPS) to go see the packaging. Have the receiver take plenty of pics and send them to you. Hopefully, the receiver had the delivery person note damage etc at time of delivery.

6. All will want you to "prove" current value and they will try to depreciate that. You must have documentation of current replacement value.

7. They will routinely deny the claim saying you failed do to something they required or at best offer maybe 25% of declared value. Here is how to respond again in writing and this is why they only have $100 standard insurance and require the additional declared value be purchase.

"Liability of shippers/carriers is controlled by the Carmack Amendment of 1906 to the Interstate Commerce Act which "makes carriers liable for the full actual loss, damage, or injury*** caused by them to property they transport and declares unlawful and void any contract, regulation or tariff, or other means of limiting liability. "

The statute codifies that a carrier is liable for damage to goods transported UNLESS it can show the damage was cause by one of the following exceptions allowed by law:

a. the act of God,
b. public enemy
c. the act of the shipper himself
d. Public Authority
e. the inherent vice or nature of the goods.

Those are the ONLY exceptions for the carrier. Since they cannot show any of those they are on the hook.

By the way, this was specifically upheld the US Supreme Court ruling in Missouri Pacific Railroad vs. Elmore & Stahl, (1964).. The above comments were taken from the Supreme Court decision."

"You can pay the claim or I will file a small claims case and then you will pay the claim, and my attorney fees and filing charges etc." (Most small claims courts do not require an attorney and pretty easy filing with minimal costs to file and have sheriff deliver claim to the shipper (UPS/FEDEX and 3rd party shipper etc.)

NOTE: Copy this statement and save it for later.

8. Depending on how you shipped it, if they deny the claim you can sue either the shipper or 3rd party in small claims court and win with above statement and copy of the US Supreme Court decision which can be downloaded. That makes your case simple normally as they cannot fight a Supreme Court decision. Just give the judge a copy of the decision to back up your claim.

9. Note also that 3rd party shippers often do not buy additional declared value from the shipper (UPS/FEDEX). They carry private insurance that makes filing a claim even harder. Then you are suing the shipping company, the 3rd party shipper and his insurance so you have 3 defendants.

Been there and done that
 
For rifles, I take them out of the stock and pack them in PVC tubes, and build a cardboard box around it. When I sent my first rifle to Alex Sitman he said it was "the best packing job he's ever seen"

Take it directly to UPS. Especially right now. USPS just cannot be trusted.
 
I have shipped many a rifles and this is what I do.
Before I advertise the rifle I get on line with Midway or Brownells and buy a hard sided rifle case. If you just buy the case it comes in a nice cardboard box.
Now you have a hard sided case and the proper box.
I always get the FFL info from the buyer and call the FFL holder myself. This cuts out the “middle man” and you know exactly what the FFL holder needs to include what shipping carrier you need to use.
Once you have cleared payment get online to the carrier the FFL wants you to use. Get online to the carriers web site and ship it.

Most UPS or FedEx stores are privately owned and can not except firearms due to they do not have insurance coverage for them. Thats why you need to actually drop the box off at the shipping hub
 
BountyHunter said:
Couple words of caution.

1. With UPS and FEDEX you are not buying insurance. You are buying additional declared value. Read the receipts. There is a difference.

2. Both have explicit written instructions on how to package firearms. 2" solid foam all the way around is the norm. You need to follow their instructions. They have grounds to deny if you do not follow the requirements.

3. Both consider manufacturers original shipping boxes as "one time use" only.

4. If you use a 3rd party shipper such as a Mail Box, they have the claim not you!! You have to give all your documentation to them and let them file the claim and hopefully they are as passionate about your money as you are. Again, read the receipt they give you.

5. IF there is damage, have the receiver maintain all original shipping boxes, wrapping, foam etc and ask the shipper in writing (UPS/FEDEX/USPS) to go see the packaging. Have the receiver take plenty of pics and send them to you. Hopefully, the receiver had the delivery person note damage etc at time of delivery.

6. All will want you to "prove" current value and they will try to depreciate that. You must have documentation of current replacement value.

7. They will routinely deny the claim saying you failed do to something they required or at best offer maybe 25% of declared value. Here is how to respond again in writing and this is why they only have $100 standard insurance and require the additional declared value be purchase.

"Liability of shippers/carriers is controlled by the Carmack Amendment of 1906 to the Interstate Commerce Act which "makes carriers liable for the full actual loss, damage, or injury*** caused by them to property they transport and declares unlawful and void any contract, regulation or tariff, or other means of limiting liability. "

The statute codifies that a carrier is liable for damage to goods transported UNLESS it can show the damage was cause by one of the following exceptions allowed by law:

a. the act of God,
b. public enemy
c. the act of the shipper himself
d. Public Authority
e. the inherent vice or nature of the goods.

Those are the ONLY exceptions for the carrier. Since they cannot show any of those they are on the hook.

By the way, this was specifically upheld the US Supreme Court ruling in Missouri Pacific Railroad vs. Elmore & Stahl, (1964).. The above comments were taken from the Supreme Court decision."

"You can pay the claim or I will file a small claims case and then you will pay the claim, and my attorney fees and filing charges etc." (Most small claims courts do not require an attorney and pretty easy filing with minimal costs to file and have sheriff deliver claim to the shipper (UPS/FEDEX and 3rd party shipper etc.)

NOTE: Copy this statement and save it for later.

8. Depending on how you shipped it, if they deny the claim you can sue either the shipper or 3rd party in small claims court and win with above statement and copy of the US Supreme Court decision which can be downloaded. That makes your case simple normally as they cannot fight a Supreme Court decision. Just give the judge a copy of the decision to back up your claim.

9. Note also that 3rd party shippers often do not buy additional declared value from the shipper (UPS/FEDEX). They carry private insurance that makes filing a claim even harder. Then you are suing the shipping company, the 3rd party shipper and his insurance so you have 3 defendants.

Been there and done that
Click to expand...
These are issues you have to deal with regardless of the package contents (firearms or otherwise). Good points though. I actually have had to use insurance with the third party I use, and it was pretty easy. The third party basically did all the work for me. I had to give a few pictures, and answer a few questions, but that was it.
 
Realistically all have fallen short at one time or another. And the specific people employed in your local crew does make a difference.
 
LVLAaron said:
For rifles, I take them out of the stock and pack them in PVC tubes, and build a cardboard box around it. When I sent my first rifle to Alex Sitman he said it was "the best packing job he's ever seen"
Click to expand...
That's what I do. A rifle not broken down into barreled action + stock, shipped in a long/narrow box, just screams "Rifle!" Break it down, bubble wrap the two parts separately, then make a compact box that could contain anything from outside appearances. No one at the counter will ask "Is that a firearm by chance?" and it's much less likely to be stolen by a worker along the line.
-
 
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