Need advice on best brass and dies to use for Savage 6mmBR Norma - help!

[1972]

Hello Gentlemen,

Please excuse me if my question is be one that has been asked many times before. I have looked through the old correspondence as best I can but I haven’t been able to find a definitive answer.

Here’s my situation:

I just ordered a new Savage Model 12 LRPV in 6mmBR Norma caliber. It has the 1:12 twist.

When I started looking for brass for it I got a bit confused with respect to what brand of brass would be best to use. NORMA makes brass for the 6mmBR Norma, and LAPUA also makes brass for the 6mmBR Norma. According to what I read on the 6mmBR Norma page there is a difference between the NORMA brass and the LAPUA brass. They even go so far as to say, “Make sure your gunsmith chambers for the LAPUA brass dimensions, not 6mmBR Remington or Norma brass”. Now that would apply more to a situation where you were having a rifle built and mine is a factory rifle, but never the less there seems to be a difference in the chambering for NORMA brass or LAPUA brass.

I can’t seem to get a response from Savage, so I’m wondering – which “brass” is their 6mmBR Norma rifle chambered for? NORMA brass or LAPUA brass.

The 6mmBR Norma page tells you to use LAPUA brass. They say there is none better. But they then go on to say that it will be tight in the neck and web and you will need to have special dies.

Wouldn’t I be better off to just use NORMA brass if it fits better than the LAPUA brass?

So basically, can anybody tell me if the chamber in the Savage 6mmBNR Norma is designed around the specs for LAPUA brass or NORMA brass?

And which brass is most likely going to fit best?

And then there is the question of which dies to use. I was intending to use the Redding Competition Dies. According to their catalog they make dies for the 6mmBR Norma, but I’m wondering what the actual specs of the dies are. Are their dies going to size the brass down to NORMA brass standards – or to LAPUA brass standards?

Does anybody know – or should I try to phone Redding?

Sorry to be asking what must be silly questions to you fellows, but I’m new to reloading for rifles and am not sure of some things. I’ve been reloading for my handguns for years, but that was pretty straight forward compared to this.

Oh yeah, and once I figure all this out then I’m going to have to try and figure out which bushings I need to put in the Redding dies. How do you determine that?


Thanks in advance for any advice and information.

 

[1972]

Just an addendum to the above. I was finally able to speak with a very nice lady at Savage but, unfortunately, she didn’t have a clue about which brass dimension (LAPUA or NORMA) the rifle was actually chambered around, or which would fit it best. All she could tell me was that the rifle was chambered for the 6mmBR Norma cartridge. Yup, I already knew that.

So obviously Savage is not going to be any help in this.

I’m hoping some of you gentlemen have some practical experience with this specific rifle and brass, and can point me in the right direction.

I still have not heard back from Redding, so I don’t know if their dies are made to the LAPUA brass measurements or the NORMA brass measurements. Guess I’ll try and phone them again.

 

[fdshuster]

I've been using Lapua brass for years, in all 5 of my 6BR chamberings without any concerns or problems. It's my understanding that Norma "redesigned" the 6BR Remington ctg. so there would not be an infringement on the patent of the Remington ctg. The Norma case is 1.560" in length while the Remington is 1.520". They also made the case head a few thousandths larger diameter, all so their ctg. would not fit in a Remington chamber. A short time later, Lapua began making brass based on the Norma dimensions. The original Remington chambering is all but obsolete now. I gotta believe Savage is chambering to the Norma/Lapua dimensions. And an additional note: When/if you buy a die set (new) the box label may very well say "6BR Remington", like on my Redding Type S neck bushing die. Fagetaboudit! It's 6BR Norma/ Lapua. Confusing I know, and the manufacturers are doing their part to continue the confusion, by not properly labeling the boxes "Norma/Lapua".

 

[Frankr]

Well if this is any help to you i have had 2 6br's one was a old chambering with a .262nk and my new one is a 6br norma chambering with a .269nk and i have shot the lapua case and the remington cases in both of them i think its just a few thousands difference in them.I would reccomend you shoot the lapua case they seem to be the very best.I have a friend who has a old br 6rem br chamber short neck job and he has to FL size the lapua case to fit them in gun also he has to cut the necks off.As far as neck bushing go it has been years since i have turned a neck or set up a die(thats how long i been shooting the same cases)But i think i measured the fired case and then went .002 smaller on the bushing,But there is alot of information floating around.and there are differant levels of how much neck tension you want or need. so you can get bushing 1/2 thousand size. I think once you have a fired case redding can give you a bushing size that will get you going.I have used the redding comp bushing dies for years.also have used the wilson hand dies for ppc'c,i perfer the redding dies.

 

[camac]

Measure a loaded round not a fired one.
For a simple answer : Go the Lapua brass and start with a .268 neck bushing. You can experiment with neck tension from there +/- 1 thou (Very likely to be 1-2 thou with Lapua depending on your batch - Loaded rounds typically mic .269-.270 but can be .268 - .271).
Your chamber neck size should be around .272 and chambered for a 6mmBRNorma. But As Frank said the dies will do both Remngton and Norma chambers.

 

[RonAKA]

I plan to get the same gun. Here is what I plan to go with for what it is worth:

Lapua Brass

Forster Bump Bushing Sizing die
http://www.forsterproducts.com/catalog.asp?prodid=624362&showprevnext=1

Forster Ultra Micrometer Seating die
http://www.forsterproducts.com/catalog.asp?prodid=624251&showprevnext=1

I plan to go with .267 and .266 bushings. This is based on using the .267 for new brass. Expecting the .267 will let the brass spring back to .268 after sizing. Lapua brass should be .269 after seating so this will give 0.001" fit to the bullet. The .266 is for use after the brass thins out with age. If the Lapua brass turns out to be thicker than planned in the neck, I will turn the OD with a Forster neck turner.

The bump bushing die does not come with an expander ball. So you will have to order that separately. Normally you do not use one, but reports are that Lapua brass comes with a small neck and if you use them out of the box without expanding them, then the bullet fit is too tight. After the first firing, you should not have to use the expander again.

Forster sell the bushing die as a kit for the 6BR as well. It includes .268, .266, and .264 bushings. Also note that Forster list prices are quite high. You can probably do much better than what they show.

http://www.forsterproducts.com/catalog.asp?prodid=624396&showprevnext=1

 

[1972]

Thanks Ron - and the others that responded. This answers several questions for me that I was asking on the other thread dealing with bullet weights.

I really apprecaite the advice and help. Been reloading for hand guns forever, but a lot of the issues that present themselves when loading for accuracy in rifles do not have to be dealt with in hand gun ammunition. So I have much to learn.

So you are saying that the OUTSIDE diameter of the loaded cartridge neck should be .269? So that makes the neck of the loaded cartridge approximately .003 smaller in diameter than the (theoretical) inside dimension of the chamber. Is that right? You want about .003 clearance?


And then if the Lapua brass neck walls are too thick you have to turn them down. For example if the outside diameter of a loaded Lapua cartridge was .271 then the walls are too thick and they will have to be turned down so the loaded neck ends up being .269?