I am having trouble getting powders like Varget. I did manage to get some IMR 4064,4320, and I already had some H-335. My other problem is the primers-in the last 4-5 months I have only found CCI 200, CCI 250, and Win LR primers. I have some of each. My .308 likes the federal 168 gr SMK's a lot. My intention is to work up loads to group better than these-(.500"). I have Rem 700 20" bbl 1-12 twist. I realize every rifle has it's own preference. Have to start some where. I have Hornady (match) brass, Sierra 168 MK bullets, Hornady 168 A-max, Bergers 168 match, and Nosler 165 Competion match bullets. Am I fooling myself thinking I can achieve better accuracy using these bullets with above powders and standard primers as part of the equasion? I am looking for .200" or less groups @ 100 yds and will probably never shoot past 500. Thanks for your replies/experiences.
Need advice on accurate loads for .308 using IMR 4064,4320 and regular primers
- Thread starter kawzak
- Start date
jonbearman
I live in new york state,how unfortunate !
Yep, it is .308 right in the title bar. I don't think you will get it in the .200's but under a half inch is possible. I have the same barrel and the best was high .3's.
joshb
Gold $$ Contributor
Before there was Varget, 4064 was THE powder for 308.(in my little corner of the world). Somewhere, I read a "study" that concluded 4064 was the powder in Gold Medal Match ammo. I changed to Varget and had to go back to 4064 as availability dried up. I shoot a Remmy 7005R. My best groups are .5, after app.4000 rnds. and a head-spinning amount of different test loads. ( I did have a .1, once, at 50 yards, during sight in of the rifle, which lured me into this "madness"
In my gun, I put a 168 Hornady Amax, Bthp, or Sierra MK 2 thousands off MY lands ( app. Col-2.96, hand fed one by one) on top of 40 grains of 4064 , Win LR primer, in federal brass. I some times go up to 42.8 grains, but mostly shoot the 40 grain load. I get better groups with 37.3 Viht 135, but I can't find it. Also: I get better groups from freshly annealed cases. Just last week, i checked the local gun store and they had just gotten some Varget. I drove throuh a snow storm for an 8 lber. Keep looking. It's coming back, but 4064 works great. If you want to shoot .1, you need time, practice and a custom, from my view.😃
In my gun, I put a 168 Hornady Amax, Bthp, or Sierra MK 2 thousands off MY lands ( app. Col-2.96, hand fed one by one) on top of 40 grains of 4064 , Win LR primer, in federal brass. I some times go up to 42.8 grains, but mostly shoot the 40 grain load. I get better groups with 37.3 Viht 135, but I can't find it. Also: I get better groups from freshly annealed cases. Just last week, i checked the local gun store and they had just gotten some Varget. I drove throuh a snow storm for an 8 lber. Keep looking. It's coming back, but 4064 works great. If you want to shoot .1, you need time, practice and a custom, from my view.😃I shoot lots of IMR4064 in my .308. Found that somewhere around 42 grains with a 175 gr SMK does every bit as good as 43-44 gr of Varget.
Get plenty of speed for distances up to 1k and great accuracy. >.200" groups at 100 yards are frequent with the average falling in the low "30's".
Just bought another 16# of 4064 and quit looking for Varget altogether.
Get plenty of speed for distances up to 1k and great accuracy. >.200" groups at 100 yards are frequent with the average falling in the low "30's".
Just bought another 16# of 4064 and quit looking for Varget altogether.
Only problem with IMR 4064 is powder measures don't meter it well. It was the choice powder for 308 until Varget came along. Product uniformity is Varget's biggest issue. I've ran into a few different batch burn rates with Varget. IMR 4064 and all IMR powders are extremely uniform batch to batch. IMR 4320 will meter a bit better than 4064. Good luck with .200 MOA goal.
Never had great results with Hornady brass in 308, Lapua would be my choice.
Never had great results with Hornady brass in 308, Lapua would be my choice.
Thanks for all the replies. Other than one poster stating he used Win regular LR primers-I did not see anyone else post "IF" they were getting any good results with any primers other than federals or BR. I cannot and have not found anything but Win LR, CCI 200 and or CCI 250 mag primers. If I am to reload I will have to use these primers-unless most agree it is a waste of time.
Jet
Gold $$ Contributor
IMR4064 is my go to powder for the .308Win. 43.5 gr using Lapua brass, 168SMK and CCI BR2 primers will produce .75 3 shot groups. That is as good as I hope to get from this particular factory rifle.
Like Donovan said above, .2 is likely not attainable and you will go through a lot of components trying to achieve an unrealistic goal.
Good Shooting.
Rich
Like Donovan said above, .2 is likely not attainable and you will go through a lot of components trying to achieve an unrealistic goal.
Good Shooting.
Rich
I'd agree with everything already said, that is use 4064 as your first choice but don't expect 0.2" groups. 4320 has never shone in 308 for me, but it does for some others. Try the Nosler and Sierra bullets first as they usually work well in most factory rifle barrels, although if your Remy's is on the slack side internally you may get best results from the A-Max as they're a little larger diameter than the others.
As for primers, kick off with the CCI-200s - nothing at all wrong with them. CCI-250 (magnum), and Winchester WLR are both 'hot' numbers, and while nothing in handloading or load development is guaranteed, will usually produce poorer results with relatively small charges of 4064 or 4320 in the 308.
As for primers, kick off with the CCI-200s - nothing at all wrong with them. CCI-250 (magnum), and Winchester WLR are both 'hot' numbers, and while nothing in handloading or load development is guaranteed, will usually produce poorer results with relatively small charges of 4064 or 4320 in the 308.
Thanks for all your help. I can shoot .700" groups with Fed 168 SMK's factory loaded Gold match ammo @ 100 yds anytime. My Rem 700 .308 has a good tight chamber and (consistent size) rifling (better than a lot of factory produced I have seen). maybe The one I got was made with a new set of reamers/dies. I bedded the action in a good target stock. It shoots very well for a factory receiver/bbl. I suspect I can shrink those groups ( at least some) by reloading what it likes. I posted this thread because I am limited to powders and primers that I can find/buy. My intent was to save myself time and effort experimenting with what I am limited to-in the experience of others. (It helps I have my own range to shoot at whenever I want, so I do so when conditions are favorable). For those that have read the secrets of the "Houston Warehouse", I live a little ways away-so the accuracy in Texas helps also-(just joking). I do enjoy making each and every load as consistent as possible-working the brass on up. Just wish I could find/buy some of the more popular benchrest powders/primers. Thanks again for you posts.
It looks like anything like the Federals 210, benchrest, Tula, Wolf, just about any of the "slower" primers are best for accuracy. My problem is there is NONE for me to buy anywhere. Does any one use Selier & Belliot? Are they any good? only thing beside the CCIs I may be able to get. And that would be paying the Haz-mat fee also. I would not mind that if I could also find/add some powder to go with it!!!. geeze, what do others do?. Most of the vendors have their popular primers and powders as "sold out-NO back order". You would think it is year 2008 again.
kawzak said:
Large rifle CCI BR primers in stock at PV
joshb
Gold $$ Contributor
PV= powder valley. What I do when I can't find what I want is shoot with what I find. These past years have been tough on ALL of us. I found some 4895 and grabbed it. It's not the best in my gun, but I use it. I'd rather go shooting and have fun instead of sitting at home, scanning the internet for the "perfect" components. I even stopped shooting 308 and shot .223 when I couldn't find any 308 powders. The shortage won't last forever. The stuff you have should do OK. Maybe not perfect, but it will go bang. Good luck.
dalej said:
I used to have that problem. Now I use a Chargemaster and all my cussing has been seriously reduced.
Don't want to fork over the shekels for the RCBS C/M? Get the Omega for only $75. They even make an automatic version you pair with your favorite beam type scale for $170 (Midway).
dmoran said:
I have been able to do it with a simple trigger change and good bedding job on more than one 20" Remington.
Granted, it's not easy but it is attainable.
Yes, one should never take it for granted that their rifle will be this accurate but they should never believe it's impossible. Feed the right bullet, powder, COAL, into the rifle and then work on the gun handling skills. You'd be amazed at how much of the rifle's accuracy is shooter related.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.