Hello gentlemen. I have been browsing this site for about 2 weeks trying to snag some information in general about compatition rifles, but also trying to see how it could apply to my needs. I don't have a single gun anymore and want to start from scratch. I would like to get the most for my money in a rifle I could use, some for hunting, but more so for varmint shooting, and especially for target shooting. I've decided I would like to keep it legal for some of the shooting events listed here- but I cannot get around in the brush with a 30 + inch barrel. Also, what do you all think of the Savage line of guns. I hear they give you a great accurate gun out of the box for the money, but would I be better off with a different platform on which to build a better rifle? Here is my ideas on caliber and rifle: Savage model 12 in 308 cal. One more question. What do you all think of the Savage Accu-trigger? Is it worth replacing later on in serious compatition? Note- this is my first gun, but I dont want something I will throw away later. Thanks for your input guys.
need a new rifle - my only gun
- Thread starter Ben31
- Start date
ben, what type of competition are you looking to do? i would suggest going to a shoot and talking to the guys there. you should get some good ideas.savage rifles do shoot pretty good. a savage rifle could be modified further after you get one to work better for some types of shooting,depending on what you want to do. good luck cliffe
Ben - Savage is a good gun for the money, I have two. The AccruTriger is one of the best out there. Wish my 270 had it on it. Would buy one again.
The Savage is probably the best gun you can get because of the ease of changing the barrel for different calibers.
Having said that the barrel that comes with the gun is a hunting barrel not a bull barrel for bench rest competition. You could get a varmint gun from Savage with a heavy barrel but it won't be in the caliber you want. ,Maybe 223 or 204. Not a good caliber for hunting.
Your choice of 308 is good,Short Action) which could be made into a 6BR at a later date, BUT. I think you will like the .243,the 243 is a 6mm head and will get you use to that caliber). Right out of the box you can use it for varmint, deer or bench rest comps. You can use 65gr all the way up to 105gr heads and ammo. I don't know if you reload or not, but if you do you will love the 243 for reloading,easy).
It is a light recoiling caliber and fun to shoot. If you can get the model that has a removable magazine, mine is a blind mag and that is the only fault I have with it.
There are other good rifles out there for more money and less easy to change over. You will not go wrong with the Savage.,good customer service)
Good Luck
Jim
The Savage is probably the best gun you can get because of the ease of changing the barrel for different calibers.
Having said that the barrel that comes with the gun is a hunting barrel not a bull barrel for bench rest competition. You could get a varmint gun from Savage with a heavy barrel but it won't be in the caliber you want. ,Maybe 223 or 204. Not a good caliber for hunting.
Your choice of 308 is good,Short Action) which could be made into a 6BR at a later date, BUT. I think you will like the .243,the 243 is a 6mm head and will get you use to that caliber). Right out of the box you can use it for varmint, deer or bench rest comps. You can use 65gr all the way up to 105gr heads and ammo. I don't know if you reload or not, but if you do you will love the 243 for reloading,easy).
It is a light recoiling caliber and fun to shoot. If you can get the model that has a removable magazine, mine is a blind mag and that is the only fault I have with it.
There are other good rifles out there for more money and less easy to change over. You will not go wrong with the Savage.,good customer service)
Good Luck
Jim
Thanks Jim. yeah I want a gun to break in the owner not the other way round I think. I dont want cheap crap though. Thanks for your input. Is there a better caliber or powder load that I could choose then 308? I am thinking I may not find it. 243 is good but barrel life sucks?!! Is there a titanium rifling that can be put in? Tell me if anyone knows.
ben, why not get a stevens or savage in 308 and get a 6mmbr or a 6.5x47 shilen barrel and a different stock and swap back and forth. one factory, lighter) barrel for hunting and a heavy barrel shilen for target. getting one gun for everything is like wearing the same coat year round, it might be great for the cold,but not much fun in the summer. i hope it works for ya though. cliffe also jim, a fred moreo trigger IMO works better than the factory accutrigger. i'd rather have the old savage and swap the fred moreo trigger in.
Cliff - I have been trying a number of triggers out and the Tikka is pretty good as well as the new Remington, I haven't tried the Moreo but it's worth a try.
Yes the barrel life will be short but that's true of any 6mm you will be using,700 to 1500 rounds) I have only put about 60 243's through mine, but I don't shoot comp. My barrel should last me for an other 3 years. Then it goes to 6.5x47 or .260 another short life barrel hopefully about $250.00. That's cheaper than a new rifle. I'm not sure what a head space gage costs an other $35.00 or so.
I am still using the AccuTriger set as it came from the factory and I swear it is at 26oz,1.5lbs) and I love it.
The best trigger I have is on my Bushmaster Varminter set at less than 1 lbs. Two stage very little take up and no excess travel after it breaks. I don't know who's trigger they are using but I would recommend it to everyone. Probable only made for the AR. That would be a shame since it is a assume trigger.
Well I have taken up more space than I intended to. Ben don't worry about the life of your barrel, depending on how you are going to use the rifle will determine it's life,nothing lasts forever). If your thinking is that some of the older rifles have lasted 20, 30 or 50 years, yes they have but they are only taken out once or twice a year for deer hunting. On a basis of only firing 5 to 10 bullets a year, if you take care of them at that rate they should last 100 years. That's why they are handed down from generation to generation.
If you shoot comp then you will be putting 100 to 150 rounds through the barrel each comp. 5 comps a year and you will need a new barrel,that just part of the game).
Ben check out the article on the home page about the 243.
Thanks all
Jim
Cliff I will look into the Moreo for my 270, Thanks
Yes the barrel life will be short but that's true of any 6mm you will be using,700 to 1500 rounds) I have only put about 60 243's through mine, but I don't shoot comp. My barrel should last me for an other 3 years. Then it goes to 6.5x47 or .260 another short life barrel hopefully about $250.00. That's cheaper than a new rifle. I'm not sure what a head space gage costs an other $35.00 or so.
I am still using the AccuTriger set as it came from the factory and I swear it is at 26oz,1.5lbs) and I love it.
The best trigger I have is on my Bushmaster Varminter set at less than 1 lbs. Two stage very little take up and no excess travel after it breaks. I don't know who's trigger they are using but I would recommend it to everyone. Probable only made for the AR. That would be a shame since it is a assume trigger.
Well I have taken up more space than I intended to. Ben don't worry about the life of your barrel, depending on how you are going to use the rifle will determine it's life,nothing lasts forever). If your thinking is that some of the older rifles have lasted 20, 30 or 50 years, yes they have but they are only taken out once or twice a year for deer hunting. On a basis of only firing 5 to 10 bullets a year, if you take care of them at that rate they should last 100 years. That's why they are handed down from generation to generation.
If you shoot comp then you will be putting 100 to 150 rounds through the barrel each comp. 5 comps a year and you will need a new barrel,that just part of the game).
Ben check out the article on the home page about the 243.
Thanks all
Jim
Cliff I will look into the Moreo for my 270, Thanks
Ben,I have several savages.308,7mmrsaum,6cm,and a switch gun that started life as a 22-250 varmit model.All rifle's shoot verygood tight groups.Accutrigger is on all of them.Out of those 4 rifles 3 of them were whole rifles.The 6cm I built on a singleshot ss savage action I bought from Jim Briggs.Dave Bruno chambered the barrel, built the custom die.The 6cm is my most exspensive savage I own.Under 1300.00 without scope.It also cost less to shoot then the others.It holds its own on the field.My 22-250 varmit is a plastic stock I bedded,I use it as my switch gun.I have a 7mm-08 sporter barrel on it now for hunting.I bought the barrel from a guy of this site,with under 100 rounds thru it,shipped to me for 110.00.Do yourself a favor,give savage a good hard look at their ability and their potential.Oh did I mention all my exspensive remington's are for sale.That's another story,take care. Don Dunlap
Thank you all for responding to my post. I still have a ton of questions to ask: I noticed that SAKO has quick release levers on it's scope mounts. They claim that the scope doesn't have to be re-sighted in after removal. I know that there used to be a german company called... AO I think, and they were removable mounts for a scope as well. What are some ideas on this type of setup? I wonder if you would loose some of your mount stability. On the subject of the 243- I really like what I read about that caliber, the ackley improved looks a bit better yet. Do they make titanium inserts for barrels that prolong the life and allow for greater pressure loads on the barrel? Lots of questions, but so far I have gotten some great responses to get my gears turning. As always, thanks for all of your input. I'm still waiting to make a decision on my first gun. P.S. I have shot heavy calibers too, but I am thinking that in hunting I want to limit my kill to no tougher than a deer for this rifle... maybe a prong horned sheep hunt in the mountains which would require a long range gun.
ben, i just got 5 titanium valves for a 450 racebike motor with 5mm stems and 28 and 29 mm diameter. they cost 125 bucks apiece! can't imagine how much a titanium barrel insert would cost and have never heard of such a thing.if you put a gun together with a custom target barrel, about a year afterwards you're already thinking about the next barrel or another rifle. a good idea is to look back at some of the featured guns. some pretty neat stuff for some ideas to implement on yours. cliffe
I would say a Savage can easily be improved as funds become available.
However if you can find a Tikka M595 Short action or M 695 long action you'd be happy if you want to go through the trouble of building a gun. You are limited on stock selection though.
You have a good magazine, good feel and bolt throw and they are generally quite accurate even with a factory tube.
Now what type of shooting besides varminting are you going to do? Highpower, F-tr, F-open, BR, and X-coarse all have different functions that stock selection is pretty critical.
As far as caliber you can't really go wrong with a .308, but I don't own one
Especially if you don't reload a .308 is GTG.
However if you do reload and you like a flat shooting rifle with decent bore life...give my caliber a try 6.5x55 SE.
However if you can find a Tikka M595 Short action or M 695 long action you'd be happy if you want to go through the trouble of building a gun. You are limited on stock selection though.
You have a good magazine, good feel and bolt throw and they are generally quite accurate even with a factory tube.
Now what type of shooting besides varminting are you going to do? Highpower, F-tr, F-open, BR, and X-coarse all have different functions that stock selection is pretty critical.
As far as caliber you can't really go wrong with a .308, but I don't own one
Especially if you don't reload a .308 is GTG.However if you do reload and you like a flat shooting rifle with decent bore life...give my caliber a try 6.5x55 SE.
Ben if your looking for extended barrel life, great performance, accurracy and speed with less winddrift then most of those other calibers then the 6cm falls into that category.When this barrel is shotout I'll have at least 4000 rounds of accuracy out of it.The fella that developed this caliber is on this site,his name is joesr, checkout his post on it. It will outlive those other barrel burners and reload for less with 115 dtac's. My barrel is 27 inch's long,my rifle setup to shoot for varmit's or target with a 12-42x56 benchrest weighs only 13.5 lbs. That's without a bipod. A fella I talk to out in Wyoming took a nice pronghorn buck this past year on opening day at 457 yards with that 115 dtac. This might be what your looking for,I'll never be without one.
I haven't done any reloading yet. The only experience I have with guns I learned from an old man I used to know. He also sold me some of his guns: Winchester model 70 375 H & H magnum, and a mauser chambered in 270 winchester. 35-6 pump remington, lever action 357 magnum model 92 browning, And I owned some shotguns... oh yeah, a ruger #1 falling block in 416 remington. I can shoot the heavy calibers well, but I want to get into reloading and have the opertunity to compete in some compatitions with a gun I can go deer hunting with when the season comes around. What else, even if the caliber is a bit big I would like to use it on varmint. 308 has alot of good factory loaded ammo, but why not go with a better caliber if 6.5 is such a round? I don't mind lugging around a bull barrel, but I am a bit worried about length. Offhand carry and shooting can be a problem when in brush using a longer barrel, but I suppose for some calibers that you need the barrel length for powder burn and virsatility in your loads. What is a switch barrel? I know that my friend had a barrel he could snap on like a Blazer rifle for one of his guns, but I think that would affect accuracy as well as reduce the pressure tolerances of the gun. Again, thanks guys. You are helping me form some good ideas here, probably less biased than going to a gunsmith and having him tell me what he wants me to hear - for what he is selling.
The only titanium barrel inserts I've ever seen are made by Briley strictly for shotgunsm so that a 12 ga barrel set can fire 16ga, 20 ga or 410. I've never seen a titanium barrel or insert for a centerfire rifle in forty years. I have seen experimental barrels made of a type of ceramic but so far that is just proof of concept, the stuff is so impossible to machine or rifle that there is no accuracy.
Steel is the material of choice for a lot of reasons. Durability, basic machining properties, whatever.
In a short action receiver, if you don't go with the .308, then the most versatile chambering would be the .260 Remington which while harder on the barrel has superior ballistics. If you are looking at possibly some long range target shooting the new 130 gr class bullets for the .260 might bear checking out.
Yeah, lots of other choices out there but if it's going to be your only rifle just apply the KISS principle.
Speaking of .308, I've been playing with the 155 Scenars lately with some interesting results, decent accuracy with pretty good velocity. The rifle needs work though.
Steel is the material of choice for a lot of reasons. Durability, basic machining properties, whatever.
In a short action receiver, if you don't go with the .308, then the most versatile chambering would be the .260 Remington which while harder on the barrel has superior ballistics. If you are looking at possibly some long range target shooting the new 130 gr class bullets for the .260 might bear checking out.
Yeah, lots of other choices out there but if it's going to be your only rifle just apply the KISS principle.
Speaking of .308, I've been playing with the 155 Scenars lately with some interesting results, decent accuracy with pretty good velocity. The rifle needs work though.
I've looked online at some various sites and found alot of listings for the Savage model 12 in 243 winchester, for a resonable price. I read some articles on tactical shooting and some on long range benchshooting. Seems there is alot of praise for this round, though barrel life is not good - 1,500 rounds or so. I am so impressed with the Savage line of guns for the price that I want to buy a model 12 varmint rifle in 243 and when I shoot that out maybe have the barrel rechambered for the 260 remington. Does this sound like a good idea??
Depends. If you plan on doing any long range shooting the varminter barrel,I believe) doesn't have enough twist to stabilize the 105gr and heavier VLDs needed to hit 1,000 yards. Now the 95gr Scenar might stabilize and that would make a decent 600 yard rig and even get you to 1,000 although probably with a bit of rainbow trajectory.
Best thing about the Savage system is it doesn't take much to change out a pre-chambered barrel. You could have a rack of barrels, .308 for F/TR, 6.5 X 284 or .260 or 6.5 Swede for F open class, and even a 6mm BR for other plinking all on the same platform.
Best thing about the Savage system is it doesn't take much to change out a pre-chambered barrel. You could have a rack of barrels, .308 for F/TR, 6.5 X 284 or .260 or 6.5 Swede for F open class, and even a 6mm BR for other plinking all on the same platform.
Hi Ben
Here's a suggestion - Order a savage in 243,600 yr) and at the same time order a second barrel in 308,1000 yr) since the bolt should work for both calibers,I just took out some 308 brass I have and they are the same base size) You would only need to get a head space gauge to set the barrel with.
Two guns for the price of one and a half,or that of one expensive Remington).
Just be careful with which ammo you put into which barrel the cases are almost identical except for the neck and shoulder.
Jim
243 on the left - 308 on the right
Here's a suggestion - Order a savage in 243,600 yr) and at the same time order a second barrel in 308,1000 yr) since the bolt should work for both calibers,I just took out some 308 brass I have and they are the same base size) You would only need to get a head space gauge to set the barrel with.
Two guns for the price of one and a half,or that of one expensive Remington).
Just be careful with which ammo you put into which barrel the cases are almost identical except for the neck and shoulder.
Jim
243 on the left - 308 on the right
Attachments
Sages in the industry generally impart the answer to the question of which caliber should I start with, with the response, "If you have to ask, .308." And for many good reasons... namely the easy availability of quality match grade ammo, the ease of reloading for,once you get there!), and it being a very forgiving caliber.... also the recoil is very manageable, there are many available from many manufacturers, and accessories are everywhere!!
That being said, the Savage line is a great starting point with a great trigger, low price, and at home barrel changes!!
Don't over-think this, get one & get shooting!! Once you do that you will be able to decide for yourself what, if any, changes need to be made to your rifle!! Experience will teach you more than ten thousand articles on the interwideworldgorewebbything!!!
Get yourself a Savage, in .308, and spend as much on the scope as you can possibly afford,you can tune a rifle in a plethora of ways, but there's not much you can do to improve the performance of your glass!!!). Buy quality, match grade ammo, to eliminate the guessing of whether the flier was due to the ammo or the nut behind the trigger.... Invest into a quality reloading press & components & at least 2 or 3 manuals... read & learn the processes while you are shooting up that quality match grade ammo & saving that brass to make your own!
Get to as many matches as you can! You will see what works & what doesn't! Jump right in & get to shooting! Shooters love to share their knowledge & will guide you well!
As the commercial says, "Just do it!!!"
Good luck & be safe!
That being said, the Savage line is a great starting point with a great trigger, low price, and at home barrel changes!!
Don't over-think this, get one & get shooting!! Once you do that you will be able to decide for yourself what, if any, changes need to be made to your rifle!! Experience will teach you more than ten thousand articles on the interwideworldgorewebbything!!!
Get yourself a Savage, in .308, and spend as much on the scope as you can possibly afford,you can tune a rifle in a plethora of ways, but there's not much you can do to improve the performance of your glass!!!). Buy quality, match grade ammo, to eliminate the guessing of whether the flier was due to the ammo or the nut behind the trigger.... Invest into a quality reloading press & components & at least 2 or 3 manuals... read & learn the processes while you are shooting up that quality match grade ammo & saving that brass to make your own!
Get to as many matches as you can! You will see what works & what doesn't! Jump right in & get to shooting! Shooters love to share their knowledge & will guide you well!
As the commercial says, "Just do it!!!"
Good luck & be safe!
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