necking down 221 fireball

[TheCZKid]

I would think you'll definitely need an intermediate bushing, as the neck rim on a 221 will just hit the flat bottom of a 20 caliber bushing and not make it into the hole of the 20. I would anneal before two step sizing process, to make it easier to transition down.

You might try using an intermediate bushing for the first sizing, then for the second sizing compare using the 20 caliber bushing for the second sizing to a FL body die, if you have one of those. The body die will help you get the overall shape of the 20VT.

Depending on your chambers neck diameter, you will need to figure out the right neck thickness. My 20VT is a .232" diameter and I make my necks .0120" - .0125" thickness to have the room to release the bullets. If you have a .234" (no-turn neck, for Lapua) you can do .0130" if you wanted to.

In my 20VT, I use a .225 bushing as my neck sizing diameter to load. If you have thicker necks you can use a larger .226 bushing, etc.

I'd think using the 30 degree cutter would be better. You will likely want to cut slightly into the shoulder with your neck turning cutter, which will prevent the brass from forming the donut, where the neck/shoulder meet. Don't cut too far into the shoulder, but a few thousands will help them fire-form without having too much metal at the bottom of the neck.

And, after your 2nd sizing, you might need to expand the internal diameter of the neck to get the neck turning post into the necks. You can probably just use your expander ball on your die for that, and use some dry lube or something when you expand them.

 

[ricco1949]

2017 thread....Shadrac's probably got it figured out by now.... I almost got sucked in.

 

[ASbobcat]

I know it’s a PITA, but get yourself an intermediate bushing and do it without the stem. I think you can get the small sizing button (doesn’t enlarge the neck) from just about anywhere that Redding parts and accessories are sold, but I would say no it won’t hurt to use a bushing die just may have to go with the intermediate bushing. I’ve done lots of 20-222 brass that way and have had no issues.

—Darrell

PS- Use a generous amount of imperial sizing die was on the neck area.

My experience using bushing dies when case forming, is that I end up with a massive donut at the neck shoulder junction.
For decades I believed that Imperial Sizing Wax was superior when case forming. Until I recently encountered stuck cases using it. My go-to lube is Lee in the toothpaste tube. I tried that and viola' problem solved.

 

[ASbobcat]

If I'm reading this correctly, the loaded round is .228 and expands to .230+ and the Forster die is sizing at .224. Not necessary to have that much neck tension. On all of my small caliber rifles, I go with a bushing .001 smaller than the loaded round. Having said that, it's important to check your sized necks to verify they are the proper diameter.

My experience has been that virtually all F/L non-bushing dies grossly undersize the neck, RCBS typically the worst. The only exception has been Lee. Theirs are usually close enough.
For decades I believed many of the more expensive products were superior, but I have discovered recently that Lee products are a remarkable value, and even superior in many ways to pricier brands. An exception to the rule that "you get what you pay for".

 

[ASbobcat]

does anybody know if there is a problem using a bushing die for necking down 221 fireball to a vartarg

You can buy a trim die for about the cost of two bushings. Save your self a lot of hassle, and end up with a superior result. Then finish with your final bushing.

 

[ASbobcat]

When I made my 20 Vartarg Brass from Lapua 221 Fireball, I ran them through a 20 Vartarg Full Length Sizer die removed first. Then ran them through a Full Length Bushing die. Then load and shoot. You will change the shoulder angle of the Fireball brass to Vartarg angle. Wont be 100% but its enough to chamber them.
Very easy process.

This is a good method. Use a mandrel to expand the neck. Buttons will noticeably stretch the neck in this initial operation.

 

[Steve K]

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