Neck Turning New Win284 brass with Wonky Necks - Two Questions.

[pat fulghum]

I have 10 boxes (x100) of Win284 brass, attached is a pic from one of the boxes. Out of 100 pieces, there are 20 pieces that are very "wonky" just by the naked eye. A second box is about the same.

Question #1 - Is 20% about right for the number of wonky necks?

Question #2 - What is the best way to handle this? My first thought is to mandrel, neck size, then expand again before neck turning. Just using the mandrel that will match the turning arbor isn't enough to straighten them out. What would you do?

 

[jepp2]

Is 20% about right for the number of wonky necks?

Higher than usual

What is the best way to handle this?

What is your normal practice? Reason I ask, seems like the majority of folks like to size their new brass, and this will take care of it. I'm in the minority on that, so I measure the necks and see what they need. On recent Lapua, I find the case necks more undersize than I prefer, so I run a 21'st Century of the proper diameter through them. Makes them round and the diameter I want. I also put a very light film of Imperial on the inside of the case necks after putting powder in them. Makes the neck resemble having a bit of carbon in the case neck. The bare brass is kind of "sticky" on the first loading. I also run the chamfer on the inside of the case neck after running the expander through them so they don't leave scratches on the bullet exterior.

 

[pat fulghum]

@jepp2, I normally do not size before neck turning. Normally, I would just trim overall length, lube the inside necks with imperial die wax, expand with mandrel, neck turn on 21st Century lathe, load to 85% pressure and go shoot dirt to fireform them.

 

[lawrence97]

You will need to resize the full length of a neck with a 284 FL sizing die. Do not use a bushing die since it only sizes a portion of the neck. Then run your expander mandrel.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Question #1 - Is 20% about right for the number of wonky necks?

It's NOT unusual when dealing with brass that is packed in a bulk like manner. It'd be very unusual for brass like Peterson or ADG that are not packed loosely in a box.

Question #2 - What is the best way to handle this? My first thought is to mandrel, neck size, then expand again before neck turning. Just using the mandrel that will match the turning arbor isn't enough to straighten them out. What would you do?

Typically, I just like to run my brass through my Lee collet die, which takes care getting the necks ready for loading and even making seating resistance better. And I don't like to turn neck until they are fire formed anyway so that the lengths from base to shoulder datum point are uniform.

 

[Steve Jennings]

It's NOT unusual when dealing with brass that is packed in a bulk like manner. It'd be very unusual for brass like Peterson or ADG that are not packed loosely in a box.


Typically, I just like to run my brass through my Lee collet die, which takes care getting the necks ready for loading and even making seating resistance better. And I don't like to turn neck until they are fire formed anyway so that the lengths from base to shoulder datum point are uniform.

Send them all to DJ's Brass for neck turning.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I have a couple .308 Win rifles that have strong ejector springs, which create flat spots on the necks similar to the more mildly flattened ones pictured above, if I fail to extract/eject them very carefully. As a result, I set about working out how to reliably remove the flat spots. I found by trial and error that a mandrel significantly larger than bullet diameter was necessary to completely remove the flat spots. Otherwise, the flat spot would still remain to some degree, even though it was hard to visualize. I ended up having to use a mandrel of at least 0.310" diameter for that purpose, or ~.002" over bullet diameter. Because I don't turn neck for these rifles, I followed the mandrel [over] sizing step with the appropriate bushing die, and everything was good. However, a bushing die only sizes about 3/4 down the neck from the case mouth, and so wouldn't be good for the purpose of turning necks as was mentioned above, because you want to turn the necks to well below the point at which a bushing die no longer sizes the necks.

In my hands with Lapua brass, I might occasionally see a very small number of cases with dinged necks in a box of 100, typically from 1 to 5 or so. Having 20 cases in the same box like that seems like a pretty high frequency to me. Have you contacted Lapua about it? If you decide to do so, I'd be interested in hearing their response.

 

[pat fulghum]

In my hands with Lapua brass, I might occasionally see a very small number of cases with dinged necks in a box of 100, typically from 1 to 5 or so. Having 20 cases in the same box like that seems like a pretty high frequency to me. Have you contacted Lapua about it? If you decide to do so, I'd be interested in hearing their response.

@Ned Ludd , The response was

 

[Ned Ludd]

I'm not sure I agree with their assessment in terms of your intended purpose of neck turning, but thanks for posting their response. Certainly, one could fire-form all the brass first prior to neck-turning, where their approach would most certainly work. However, there are also instances where it would not work, such as in a case where the neck clearance of the chamber won't allow cases with un-turned necks to be chambered/fired unless they have been neck-turned first. In any event, I hope you get it sorted out satisfactorily.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I would FL size,without moving shoulder,using the expander. Expander 0.002 under bullet diameter. Turn the necks if needed. Load,shoot.

 

[284winner]

I'm not sure I agree with their assessment in terms of your intended purpose of neck turning, but thanks for posting their response. Certainly, one could fire-form all the brass first prior to neck-turning, where their approach would most certainly work. However, there are also instances where it would not work, such as in a case where the neck clearance of the chamber won't allow cases with un-turned necks to be chambered/fired unless they have been neck-turned first. In any event, I hope you get it sorted out satisfactorily.

Ya kinda like getting a new truck and it has scratches all down the sides. Company says, " No worries, just use some wheeling compound and finish glaze and they'll come right out". BS and not acceptable. Rant over

 

[mikecr]

No, don't downsize. Just run the turning system expander mandrel through NEW necks.
This will push out the dents and establish correct fitting to your turning mandrel.
And be sure that one side or the other of your turning system is floating.

 

[Marksman]

I'm working through this now with some new Winchester 220 Swift brass. I'm running the brass through a collet neck sizer first to uniform the outside of the necks. Then I'm running it through a expander mandrel to uniform the inside. THEN I start my neck turning process.

 

[DocBII]

I have 10 boxes (x100) of Win284 brass, attached is a pic from one of the boxes. Out of 100 pieces, there are 20 pieces that are very "wonky" just by the naked eye. A second box is about the same.

Question #1 - Is 20% about right for the number of wonky necks?

Question #2 - What is the best way to handle this? My first thought is to mandrel, neck size, then expand again before neck turning. Just using the mandrel that will match the turning arbor isn't enough to straighten them out. What would you do?

Pat,

Q1. High, but acceptable.

Q2. Expander mandrel, FL size all, anneal, mandrel, turn.

HTH,
DocBII

 

[pat fulghum]

Pat,

Q1. High, but acceptable.

Q2. Expander mandrel, FL size all, anneal, mandrel, turn.

HTH,
DocBII

I like that plan. I found in the drawer a FL sizer (no bushing) that does size the neck fully without squeezing the neck too much

 

[mikecr]

Why would you FL size new brass, for neck turning?
The cases come to you FL sized/formed as NEW, and for every yielding of brass you're adding more energy to deal with. All you want to do is neck turn, with a proper fitting on the turning mandrel.

 

[DocBII]

mikecr,

To start all the cases from the same conditions and so you obtain a consistent cut into the shoulder. You anneal to make sure the cases are all at the same hardness/tension when expanded. I've had brass from all manufacturers be too inconsistent in hardness to obtain the best results when turning.

HTH,
DocBII