Neck sizing vs full length

[johara1]

The cases aren't really perfect after they are fired. As the case work hardens during subsequent firing the brass spring back changes and after a few firings its common to get sticky bolt lift. Bumping the shoulder in a good quality die, and measuring what you do, will result in cases within .0005" of each other each and every time they are sized. So we get consistent cases that never stick and shoot as well as neck-only sized cases. We get that consistency for the life of the barrel and beyond.

Really?? Sticky bolt lift and click comes from the base and closing hard comes from not enough clearance at the shoulder........Bump dies didn't work 20 years ago, when you set the shoulder back it bulges the sides of the case, they have to be supported...... jim

 

[Steve Blair]

Every time one runs a fired case up into a die, you run the risk of changing its external dimensions. If your gunsmith has done his/her work properly, the case should come out as straight as it will ever be. In my opinion, why try to change perfection. Do as little as possible.

Creighton Audette demonstrated forty years ago that banana cases come out of perfect chambers from inconsistent case wall thickness.

 

[WIB3]

Creighton Audette demonstrated forty years ago that banana cases come out of perfect chambers from inconsistent case wall thickness.

I believe that is why we index our cases prior to neck turning.

 

[Steve Blair]

I believe that is why we index our cases prior to neck turning.

Believe anything you like, that won't straighten them.

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

I full length size but I still get the shoulder wrong a lot because I’m still learning, and I still need a hammer occasionally, but not as often as I used to. I got a new bolt knob but I don’t want to put it on yet cuz I’m not sure I’m finished hammering.

 

[dolek]

I full length size but I still get the shoulder wrong a lot because I’m still learning, and I still need a hammer occasionally, but not as often as I used to. I got a new bolt knob but I don’t want to put it on yet cuz I’m not sure I’m finished hammering.

keep at it , sounds like you almost have it figured out

 

[Liven The Dream]

40 years of Winning NRA Matches , Just took the Gold Medal in a Reginal F/Open.
Now for reloading. It is great to just get the Neck in ? But ? Getting the Full Length in is Better...

Oh ! In Forty Years only Neck Size New .308 Brass ! Why because I have the Die.

 

[WIB3]

Believe anything you like, that won't straighten them.

I never said that indexing a new case would straighten it.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Pressure on the bolt when closing is not good for accuracy.

 

[Steve Blair]

I never said that indexing a new case would straighten it.

A case with significant case wall variance will always warp during firing, no matter what you do prior.

 

[David Milisock]

The cases aren't really perfect after they are fired. As the case work hardens during subsequent firing the brass spring back changes and after a few firings its common to get sticky bolt lift. Bumping the shoulder in a good quality die, and measuring what you do, will result in cases within .0005" of each other each and every time they are sized. So we get consistent cases that never stick and shoot as well as neck-only sized cases. We get that consistency for the life of the barrel and beyond.

Do you believe it's common to get sticky bolts because the load is over pressure?

I've been loading 6MM Remington cases for decades, new cases are fired, neck sized, all cases trimmed to the exact same length then loaded.

Many are shot in excess of 20-25 times and never trimmed or resized, recycled when the neck splits. I have never had a sticky bolt when chambering or extracting a fired case.

Load is a Reloder 19, with 75 grain VMAX at 3,900 FPS, tested pressure on my first barrel was right at max average 65,000 PSI. I had to take the smiths words on that as I was not there. I shot enough rounds, slowly to burn out a barrel. Chucks, deer, no dog towns or competitions.

I believe if your neck sized brass is moving I'd back off pressure. Something's wrong, the heat and pressure is too much for the brass and or the receiver.

 

[INTJ]

Do you believe it's common to get sticky bolts because the load is over pressure?

I've been loading 6MM Remington cases for decades, new cases are fired, neck sized, all cases trimmed to the exact same length then loaded.

Many are shot in excess of 20-25 times and never trimmed or resized, recycled when the neck splits. I have never had a sticky bolt when chambering or extracting a fired case.

Load is a Reloder 19, with 75 grain VMAX at 3,900 FPS, tested pressure on my first barrel was right at max average 65,000 PSI. I had to take the smiths words on that as I was not there. I shot enough rounds, slowly to burn out a barrel. Chucks, deer, no dog towns or competitions.

I believe if your neck sized brass is moving I'd back off pressure. Something's wrong, the heat and pressure is too much for the brass and or the receiver.

It's a different kind of sticky. It is a "click" at the top of bolt lift on a fired case and it is nearly 100% prevented by bumping the shoulder .002 to .003" with a properly sized FL die on each firing.

People are of course fee to do what they want, but virtually no experienced competition shooter concerned with the ultimate in accuracy neck-only sizes.

 

[WIB3]

A case with significant case wall variance will always warp during firing, no matter what you do prior.

If you place the indexed cases at the same location to the bore, it takes the “banana” equation to a minimum. I would years ago when shooting a straight 300WBY, use this technique. It always seemed to help.

 

[WIB3]

If you place the indexed cases at the same location to the bore, it takes the “banana” equation to a minimum. I would years ago when shooting a straight 300WBY, use this technique. It always seemed to help.

That is why most top rated 1000yd Benchrest shooters have gotten away from the long narrow cases. Short and fat to minimize the Banana affect. It’s proven.

 

[David Milisock]

It's a different kind of sticky. It is a "click" at the top of bolt lift on a fired case and it is nearly 100% prevented by bumping the shoulder .002 to .003" with a properly sized FL die on each firing.

People are of course fee to do what they want, but virtually no experienced competition shooter concerned with the ultimate in accuracy neck-only sizes.

I'll have to look for that in the future, my rule has been if it won't easily open with my pinky finger I should back down.

 

[tcob68]

Some very good info here, but haven't seen any comments on initial prepping. What do competitors do to their brass before first firing when it comes to sizing. Do you fl size with the die set as manufactures instructions or do you use a different method?

 

[Liven The Dream]

I'll have to look for that in the future, my rule has been if it won't easily open with my pinky finger I should back down.

Some very good info here, but haven't seen any comments on initial prepping. What do competitors do to their brass before first firing when it comes to sizing. Do you fl size with the die set as manufactures instructions or do you use a different method?

New Brass FL Bushing Die , Trim, Flash Hole de-Burr , Pockets cut ,VLD Chamfer and Weight sort .

 

[David Milisock]

I'll have to look for that in the future, my rule has been if it won't easily open with my pinky finger I should back down.

Ok I took a hard look at all my bolt action rifles, 1 Remington 1917 in 30 06, 1 Smith Carona 03A3 in 30 06, 1 custom Remington 03 in 358 Norma, 2 different 03's in 30 06 a Springfield and a Remington, a custom 700 Remington in 6Mm Remington, a custom Howa in 223, a 96 Mauser in 6.5 x 55 and a custom 98 Mauser in 450 Marlin.

Leaving the cock on close actions out of the discussion. All the bolts when opened from an empty chamber with my right pinky, have a small click the last couple of degrees of rotation.

If I open the bolts easily, rotate most if the way and then it takes an extremely slight more effort the last few degrees and produce a slight click when this happens.

I always lightly grease my bolt lugs but I looked for wear and even on rifles in which I've fired thousands of over 60,000 PSI rounds and I see no appreciable wear. Yes bluing has marks but all the rifles lock up tight and there is no gouging on the bolts nor in any of the barrels.

I guess I never noticed any clicks when opening the bolts on my rifles in which I neck size because it does not exceed normal functions. I always fire a round open the bolt pocket the brass and close the bolt.

 

[carlsbad]

I saw a T-shirt that I interpreted as making fun of neck sizing at the F-class nationals last week. It was a picture of a target with impacts all over it in an open choke pattern with a caption "I NECK SIZE".

 

[WIB3]

When working with in perfections, one has to do what ever one has to do to try to minimize the imperfections. It worked for me in the past. I have since moved on to more consistent components.