Neck sizing question

[three percent]

So in no turn chambers for hunting rifles is it best to lightly turn case necks slightly onto shoulder to help with donuts? Ammo needing to be seated into magazine box.im using Redding type s f/l bushing dies.
Sorry for rookie question but I've been using lee collet neck dies forever and decided to give the bushing dies I have a go again.i like being able to precisely measure neck tension more easily.

So I'm having to revisit a lot of this although I think donuts are still somewhat of an issue with Lee collet die but I've never experienced it or did I know it was a such thing in any dies until recently .
Thanks

 

[LHSmith]

Donuts are formed when pushing the shoulder back to make a non-SAMMI case. You should not experience donut issues with hunting no-turn chambers.

 

[three percent]

Donuts are formed when pushing the shoulder back to make a non-SAMMI case. You should not experience donut issues with hunting no-turn chambers.

Oh thank God! Lol
Yeah I'm keeping same shoulder in all my current sizings.
Thanks for your reply

 

[jepp2]

but I've been using lee collet neck dies forever and decided to give the bushing dies I have a go again

My experience says your case neck runout will increase when you go to bushing sizing of your case necks, if that is important to you. I either use FL sizing dies, where I hone the neck to the diameter I need, or a body die and a LCD with an undersize mandrel. But your experience may differ.

 

[SeabeeKen]

Donuts are formed when pushing the shoulder back to make a non-SAMMI case. You should not experience donut issues with hunting no-turn chambers.

Donuts can also happen as cases stretch and the thicker shoulder moves forward into the neck

 

[three percent]

My experience says your case neck runout will increase when you go to bushing sizing of your case necks, if that is important to you. I either use FL sizing dies, where I hone the neck to the diameter I need, or a body die and a LCD with an undersize mandrel. But your experience may differ.

Uhgga yeah that's one reason I've been using the lee collet die.i have very low runout so I called it done and been happy for years but everyone kept telling me to buy bushing dies and a mandrel so here I am.far as hunting stuff and small groups at 100 yrds I've been very pleased with collet dies.
I'm planning on shooting f class preferably and possibly benchrest since there's not alot of f class shoots around here and this is what everyone keeps telling me I need to do is use bushing dies and mandrels

 

[jepp2]

You can use mandrels after you size the necks with the LCD. Seems like I always needed just one more bushing. Different case manufacturers, neck turning, etc all can change which bushing you need. The LCD mandrel stays the same.

 

[three percent]

You can use mandrels after you size the necks with the LCD. Seems like I always needed just one more bushing. Different case manufacturers, neck turning, etc all can change which bushing you need. The LCD mandrel stays the same.

Yeah I bought the undersize mandrels from lee and special ordered diameters from them as well.theyve served me well
I'll give it a go and see with the bushing dies.i just bought 10 bushings 2 whidden bushing kits and two more mandrels.not to mention the Wilson's I have for 260 and 308 already so I've got 6 mandrels and a pile of bushings to Play around with hopefully it pans out.
I'll be at the range alot next year lol
Hopefully the bushing dies have more consistent neck tension? I've always wondered about the lee collet dies and pressing down a consistent pressure but I've never measured on back end with seating force seating bullets with an arbor press with gauge on back end to know consistency ?idk

 

[762plinker]

lets just say this is an opportunity to choose who not to listen to

 

[three percent]

lets just say this is an opportunity to choose who not to listen to

So watcha saying?

 

[three percent]

I still feel a little runout will be better than inconsistent neck tension from lee collet dies but I don't know if lee collet dies have a consistent seating force cause I haven't bought an arbor press yet to test?
Idk just trying to figure this all out but seems the comp guys are using bushing dies and seating with arbor press not lee collet dies?

 

[three percent]

Y'all tell me I'm all ears trying to figure this all out

 

[Sandstorm]

Correct...and dont worry about a little run out....it dont mean squat.

 

[Chris Edmondson]

I still feel a little runout will be better than inconsistent neck tension from lee collet dies but I don't know if lee collet dies have a consistent seating force cause I haven't bought an arbor press yet to test?
Idk just trying to figure this all out but seems the comp guys are using bushing dies and seating with arbor press not lee collet dies?

I've tried bushing dies (Redding), and for years used Lee collet dies. They are both good systems; one squeezes from the inside out, the other from the outside in.

I've found better seating force consistency using a full length die without an expander, then using an expander mandrel. YMMV of course. Good luck with your reloading adventure, be prepared to have lots of fun

 

[three percent]

It sounds like using the mandrel die is the key to the whole situation and reason I'm going back to experimenting with it

 

[three percent]

I've tried bushing dies (Redding), and for years used Lee collet dies. They are both good systems; one squeezes from the inside out, the other from the outside in.

I've found better seating force consistency using a full length die without an expander, then using an expander mandrel. YMMV of course. Good luck with your reloading adventure, be prepared to have lots of fun

Yeah good thing arbor presses and inline seaters aren't terribly expensive .guess that's my next endeavor

 

[6Creed73]

It sounds like using the mandrel die is the key to the whole situation and reason I'm going back to experimenting with it

The thing about mandrels is it pushes from the inside out, which is what you want. It will push small inconsistencies to the outside leaving a smoother surface for the bullet.

A bushing die alone is less useful, you need the mandrel to go with it. Also, testing for indicated runout on a case neck after running it through a mandrel is a waste of time imo. As stated, it will displace material from the inside of the neck to the outside...no sense in running it over a concintricty gauge after that. But bullet runout should be better. At least in my experience.

I chased the neck runout rabbit myself, buying new bushings, different dies, etc. Until I realized it doesn't matter and the mandrel die was doing what it's supposed to.

 

[K22]

You question seems to be covering three shooting disciplines, hunting, F Class, and benchrest.

I can speak to the hunting aspect. Standard FL dies are capable, with a knowledgeable reloader, of producing excellent quality ammo, even for precision varmint hunting. Besides accuracy, another key element for hunting reloads is reliably, i.e., flawless functioning. In addition, terminal performance becomes another key issue which is determined by the bullet selection.

For competition, i.e., F Class and benchrest, you're getting into the ultra-precision game. Perhaps by addressing your question to these specific shooters you can gain more precise discipline specific information rather than generic advice. There are a lot of competitors on this forum with a wealth of experience and information that should be able to guide you if you specifically seek them out.

 

[three percent]

The thing about mandrels is it pushes from the inside out, which is what you want. It will push small inconsistencies to the outside leaving a smoother surface for the bullet.

A bushing die alone is less useful, you need the mandrel to go with it. Also, testing for indicated runout on a case neck after running it through a mandrel is a waste of time imo. As stated, it will displace material from the inside of the neck to the outside...no sense in running it over a concintricty gauge after that. But bullet runout should be better. At least in my experience.

I chased the neck runout rabbit myself, buying new bushings, different dies, etc. Until I realized it doesn't matter and the mandrel die was doing what it's supposed

The thing about mandrels is it pushes from the inside out, which is what you want. It will push small inconsistencies to the outside leaving a smoother surface for the bullet.

A bushing die alone is less useful, you need the mandrel to go with it. Also, testing for indicated runout on a case neck after running it through a mandrel is a waste of time imo. As stated, it will displace material from the inside of the neck to the outside...no sense in running it over a concintricty gauge after that. But bullet runout should be better. At least in my experience.

I chased the neck runout rabbit myself, buying new bushings, different dies, etc. Until I realized it doesn't matter and the mandrel die was doing what it's supposed to.

That's pretty much what I figured and was hoping to hear thanks

 

[209jones]

The one thing that bushing dies and mandrels give you is, control over neck tension for turned or unturned cases, you can adjust to suit, experiment to your OCD's or curiosity's content. Annealing is required for something approaching consistency though. And you may get some extra life out of necks due to being able to minimally size/work them, there is a portion of that spectrum, that is up to the brass mfgr, and you have zero control over that.
For some of my brass, when new, I'll size it with a bushing die, expand it to neck turn arbor size with a mandrel, turn it, and either hit it with a bushing or mandrel again, or leave as is and load it, depends on what diameters I want vs get from the dies. For some of it I'll just use a regular FLS or neck die and adjust with a mandrel, or use a neck only bushing/bump die and adjust with mandrel. Choices are somewhat limitless as to how to setup a case the way you want it, it is a rabbit hole, but, nice to have that choice available on the bench. Started using Lyman 2-step mandrels 30+ yrs ago with cast bullets, it was a no brainer to use them on jacketed also, no more cringing even with lubed necks and pull-thru sizer button,s and possible neck stretch issues either. The only detriment is to the pocketbook, but, once spent, it doesn't matter anyway.