Neck Sizing or FL Sizing

[savageshooter86]

I know this has been beat to death probably, but can not find alot on here....well found 1 article

I have a 308 Win and wanting more experienced reloaders/precision shooters to point me in the direction of FL sizing after each firing or neck sizing only, then FL sizing when bolt gets sticky

Am looking to upgrade my Lee dies to maybe Forster or Reddings

 

[Clod-NC]

Hi Savage shooter

Welcome here,nice place to be hanging in and about,lots of nice, helpful and resourceful folks,quite civil too,I swear....This here question that you ask,is asked about once a month on this forum,so if you care to unwind the threads a bit you'll surely come across one of them,still,as you seem to have gathered no post yet,I'll give you my 2 cent on it. Here we go:don't discard your Lee dies,although unexpensive,they're not cheap in my opinion and many others who use them daily...If you don't have one yet,order(FS reloading.com)a collet die(Lee of course)in .308 win,then go to a machinist and ask him to cut the top part of your 308 FL die(the part that has threads for the decapper)and ream the neck portion of the die to 323 or close to it,this will be your body die,but of course you can also order a Redding body die($25)in 308 from Sinclair....and while you're into ordering,ask them for a Forster benchrest seater in 308 or better still,a Forster micro seater in 308.Get a flash hole deburring tool(21st Century shooting make some caliber specific ones that are hard to beat),get one of those Sinclair or Wilson trimmers(stainless steel stuff,pay once cry once),a nice scale(gempro 250 or 500),a big Lee classic cast press,a Hornady or RCBS powder dispenser,and you're all set,at least to really start getting hooked and desperately attempting to reach the holy one hole grail!!!! You'll love it,I swear.Then,then,neck turning,jump or jam,neck tension,moly or not moly,varget or R15,I know you'll love it....It's a hell of a challenge,and sort of expensive too,but who really cares in the end?As long as you get your kicks out of it.I hope this helps....
Claude.

 

[nosualc]

Most of the mid and long range f-class shooters I know use Redding FL bushing dies set to minimally bump the shoulder, with a bushing that yields minimal neck tension. They do this each and every time.

Some go the neck size only route (using a similar bushing) with an occasional trip through a FL size die (or body die), and have great results.

I personally believe that using a properly adjusted FL bushing die, combined with annealing yields the best consistency possible. It's also simpler, which may be its most attractive attribute.

Some day I might get ambitious and get custom FL dies made from fired cases...

-nosualc

 

[FroggyOne2]

Full lenght size every time and you will never run into a problem at the worse time.

 

[Preacher]

What froggy said....

 

[cocopuff]

It has been my finding that my rifles always shoot FL sized better...I think sometimes it make a difference in the chamber dementions...I used the Lee collet dies as well..But any more I use the Imperial sizing wax and full length every time...
Like the above poster said.When full length sized you should never have any chambering problems....Now this is just my opinon....If your getting good results,why change things around?

Some claim they get extended case life with neck sizing only...I do not buy this...I have some 22-250 Rem. cases that have been loaded 20 times or more..With fulllength sizing....So go figure....Good luck with which ever method you choose..

 

[amlevin]

Some claim they get extended case life with neck sizing only...I do not buy this...I have some 22-250 Rem. cases that have been loaded 20 times or more..With fulllength sizing....So go figure....Good luck with which ever method you choose..

Different rifles, different results. Some chambers are smaller than others and stretch brass less. Others are close to the max spec, including headspace, and the brass gets a real workout.

For you, one result. For others, different. "One size" does not fit all. One needs to measure cases before and after to see how much the case is being "worked".

 

[savageshooter86]

How would I know if it is a tight chamber or not? I have a Shilen Select Match Barrel

I guess I need to measure case necks after firing and after sizing....

Is a tight chamber different term than tight neck chamber? I am trying to learn all this terminology

 

[cocopuff]

A tight chamber means just that.There is little tolarance around the case.Tight neck is a different thing.That is why you read where some HAVE to turn the outsides of the case neck in order to get it to go into the chamber..No matter who makes the barrel,one has to realize that the tool is going to wear some,therefore causing a tad difference in measurements..My self,love the Shilen barrels..Why? I just do..lol

 

[savageshooter86]

the Shilen sure does seem to want to shoot. Sub .5MOA so far out of my "cheap" Lee dies

 

[gotcha]

Hi savage shooter, 1/2 MOA w/ 30cal bullet ain't bad 8) I think the dimensional precision & consistency of the loaded round is what its really all about. If you're getting good consistent, low no.'s w/ your present die set, would a change in dies give noticeable improvement or just a different method for the money? Good gauging tools will allow you to answer that question. I use Redding body die, Forster micro seater & LCD. Can't get any better no.'s w/ Dies that are twice the price........ So far. Admittedly haven't gotten into Wilson dies yet but really haven't felt the need. ........ Bug holes to ya', Dale

 

[jo191145]

Necksizing was a fad created by shooters that never learned how to properly full length size a case.
Been there done that myself.
Theres no reason to not FL everytime as long as the die is set for the correct headspace. That is consistency.
Just don't be surprised if the load you worked up for neck sizing needs a little adjustment once you begin reloading correctly.
I've discarded lots of brass from factory chambers after 30 FL reloads simply because I use a primer uniformer to clean pockets. With hottish loads it removes a bit of brass everytime and I worry about thinning the pocket.
You'll need to learn annealing to go that far.

Redding S series Bushing Full length die set correctly with NO expander ball. Start there or end up there eventually after spending more money. Your choice.

 

[savageshooter86]

couldn't I duplicate the S Die by using a Lee collet die and a redding body die?

 

[BoydAllen]

IMO combining collet and body dies for a two step sizing operation is a really good idea, especially for SAAMI chambers, and unturned necks. Just remember that if you want more neck tension, with a collet die, you have to use a smaller diameter mandrel. Toggling the die harder is no the way to go, and can cause problems.

 

[savageshooter86]

Right now I am at 0.002 neck tension of a seated bullet neck measurement and a fired case neck sized only using the collet die. And I do NOT turn the necks. I guess I could get them to send me a slightly smaller mandrel for if I ever encounter not enough tension

I just started annealing so I should not run into any issues I don't believe?

 

[gotcha]

The annealing really helps keep the nk tension consistent. When I buy LCD's I order 2 extra mandrels ($1.49 ea.) This way I can polish them down to a smaller diameter if necessary. I get two just in case I foul up one. . Would like to hear Boyd's reasoning for using LCD & body die for SAAMI chambers only. I use this method with match chambers & happy w/ the results. BOYD?

 

[savageshooter86]

I hear people mentioning polishing them down.....How is this done? I am not familiar with machining or anything like that or polishing lol. Lee said they can send an undersized one but not sure if they can "custom size" the mandrel. I have to send in my collet die anyway to them to look at and told me to send 3 or 4 cases too so I will ask him to see what they can do for me

 

[trailrider121]

Full lenght size every time and you will never run into a problem at the worse time.

What Froggy said above.

 

[BoydAllen]

I did not mean to exclude the combination from any application, but rather thought that I was recommending it as probably being the best for a particular application. I am a great believer in the principal of letting your targets tell you what your rifle likes, and do not exclude out of the box thinking to come up with the best combination. Tell us about what sort of match applications that you are using this for. For me, I think that I have my 6PPC situation covered with a bushing FL die and a custom arbor press type seater. The FL die barely touches my fired cases. I watch bump like a hawk, and my brass seems to go on forever, in spite of warm loads. With so little neck expansion in the .262 neck chamber, the lead-in chamfers of bushings easily capture necks and seem to give excellent results. This is in contrast with those situations where neck clearances may be more generous, say .006 or so. For these, I think that a Collet die does a better job than a bushing die, and since I am not a fan of neck sizing till they get tight (because they don' tall get tight at the same time, and mixing tight an looser enlarges groups significantly) combining collet with body dies is the only way to fly. The runout and consistency of bullet pull is outstanding.

 

[tenring]

Hummm. . . .wonder why so many bench rest shooters use Wilson chamber dies. They neck size only.