Neck lubing when FL sizing?

[Bora72]

If you're full length sizing (standard die or bushing) you don't need Redding dry neck lube on the outside of the neck, you just need lube on the body (e.g. imperial wax, RCBS case lube, One Shot).

I use Redding Dry neck lube only when expanding after full length sizing and because its only needed inside the neck, I wipe the outside with a paper towel to get it off before using the mandrel. This leaves the outside clean.

A coated bushing makes it even easier.

Hello, this are like my technique, but a the principle I don't cleaned the external of the neck and the bushing o the part of the neck of the FL die that size the neck imprint the graphite on the neck and need the mechanical cleaning for remove It...

 

[Bora72]

For 50 years I always rolled my cases on a pad with a light vis synthetic oil I got from work or Auto Zone. I press the necks down on the pad to pick up lube then spin the neck in my fingers to spread it. I use bushing dies no ball expander. The neck o.d. is the most heavily sized part of the case and it should be lubed. If you don't lube the neck o.d. it increases the chances of getting Cu galling in the die. Never lubed the neck id. I would if I was using a ball or mandrel. I only reload for accurate varmint rifles. I think a light vis oil is the best lube for sizing but no-one believes me. Hardly any effort to pull the lever.

Hello, so when you press the case for neck lubing you Lube also the shouder?

For Cu galli g can clean the die with the Cu remover used on the rifle?

 

[Bora72]

I lube the neck & the whole case.

If im reading right everybody is talking inside when you're asking outside.
All it takes is lube feeling fingers, greasy feeling.
Not thick at all.

I spray with one shot.

I have used imperial wax.
Dab fingers and swirl case from bottom to top.
Might be enough on my fingers to do several before dabbing again.

Hello, yes you read correct, I only lube the inner of the neck when expand with mandrel

 

[RabbitSlayer]

I use dry lube before the mandrel. The mandrel is coated and not supposed to need lube, but I do it anyways.

I dont worry about the black graphite on the outside. By the time i handle the cases to trim, chamfer, prime and seat, most the graphite it gone. Its all over my hands, the bench, the bathroom sink the white doors in the house lol.

After shooting I dunno if its cooked on graphite or just powder. Doesn't seem to change anything either way.

 

[Bora72]

I use dry lube before the mandrel. The mandrel is coated and not supposed to need lube, but I do it anyways.

I dont worry about the black graphite on the outside. By the time i handle the cases to trim, chamfer, prime and seat, most the graphite it gone. Its all over my hands, the bench, the bathroom sink the white doors in the house lol.

After shooting I dunno if its cooked on graphite or just powder. Doesn't seem to change anything either way.

The biggest annoyance, besides having a dirty neck even after cleaning the cases in the tumbler, is that it is more difficult to understand if there are pressure leaks on the neck side.

 

[Martin52]

The biggest annoyance, besides having a dirty neck even after cleaning the cases in the tumbler, is that it is more difficult to understand if there are pressure leaks on the neck side.

A dirty neck after cleaning cases may simply be due to the carbon being left on the outside of the neck for too long after firing and becoming much harder to remove days later. If it worries you, try wiping the carbon off the outside of the neck straight after firing with a cloth with a little oil/spirits.

 

[RabbitSlayer]

A dirty neck after cleaning cases may simply be due to the carbon being left on the outside of the neck for too long after firing and becoming much harder to remove days later. If it worries you, try wiping the carbon off the outside of the neck straight after firing with a cloth with a little oil/spirits.

Some people give it a twist on some fine steel wool.

 

[209jones]

The biggest annoyance, besides having a dirty neck even after cleaning the cases in the tumbler, is that it is more difficult to understand if there are pressure leaks on the neck side.

I evaluate whether or not the necks even need cleaning before doing anything, just try wiping a few with some Hoppes non copper cleaner, see how they look, if it's not mostly coming off, I toss them all in the tumbler, which is usually only after probably 5-6 firngs min. With the kind of pressures & temps the neck sees, microscopic holes tend to get opened up real quick, can't say as I recall ever seeing one anyway, never had a split neck on any of my stuff either, even with 12 shots on non annealed brass.YMMV, but, suspecting you are overthinking it, we are all at the mercy of the makeup and processing of the new brass, some brands may actually be better than others in that respect, some cartridges seem more prone to neck defects than others. I've used mostly WW or Rem brass over the years, I have RWS, Peterson, Starline, Hornady, a few unknown relabelled ones like Browning, Sierra, Herter's. Only times I've had any issues, were with primer pocket expansion on Norma and Federal, and they were hot loads anyway, which usully wrecks most all makes. Had some issues with separation rings developing early, in the early days before I figured out how to size a case properly.

 

[Fire Dog]

Hello, so when you press the case for neck lubing you Lube also the shouder?

For Cu galli g can clean the die with the Cu remover used on the rifle?

YES, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
To remove Cu galling/deposit on your mandrel, bushings or dies try some Bore Tech Cu+2 solvent or any good quality solvent made for copper removal. The Bore Tech is a water base product and not as noxious or hazardous as some types of copper remover solvents...
I was using black nitride mandrels from 21st Century just dry and they soon collected copper deposits that caused galling on the neck ID and in worse case, collapsed the neck into the shoulder...
After several applications of solvent, rubbing to remove as much as will come off, then leave to soak 12-24 hrs if any deposits remain. I wrapped my mandrel in a paper towel soaked with the Cu+2 and left it for a day for an 'as new" return to a clean finish.
A "Non-Scratch" nylon scrubber {white one, green ones are quite abrasive} is helpful.
I NOW, lubricate the inside of the case neck with my home made version of Neo Lube #2 made with door lock graphite and 100% Isopropyl alcohol {1/2 tsp + 15ml alcohol} and apply a quick wipe inside the neck with a cotton bud. This amount will last forever... Just stir up the product before use and add a bit more alcohol if it looks like it is too thick anymore, just wants to be black watery looking for the lightest coating and quick drying. I store in a baby food bottle = small enough to reach to the bottom with a Q-tip.
In the time it takes to treat a 50rd tray of brass the product is dry and you will be ready to use the first cases in the loading block.
The alcohol dries quickly and leaves an ultra fine coating the insures smooth passage of either a mandrel or the conventional inside expanding ball.
I have tried dry lubes and found them messy {Think the black moly especially} not as good nor as quick to apply and have experienced scratching/galling when using them on the exterior of the case...
I suspect that it may be from microscopic particles of the ceramic media that the powder is suspended in.
This has been the case with Imperial dry lube and the 21st Century product.
Foster makes a system that uses "White Graphite" {hBN} that is applied using a bore brush mounted inside a container that will work {NO mess on the outside of the neck} but is slow and tedious as the cover must be put back on and the container shaken to re-coat the brush about every 6-10 cases and still does not seem to be as lubricious as the graphite applied in the alcohol mixture.
For the exterior of the cases just apply a very light wipe of Imperial Die Wax or even better if you can find it Ballistic Case Wax; a little goes a long way and a tin will last for thousands of cases...!
Wipes off quickly with a paper towel unlike the oil based lubricants that can leave a oily coating that picks up dust and dirt even when wiped down unless you spend extra care.

 

[Bora72]

A dirty neck after cleaning cases may simply be due to the carbon being left on the outside of the neck for too long after firing and becoming much harder to remove days later. If it worries you, try wiping the carbon off the outside of the neck straight after firing with a cloth with a little oil/spirits.

Hello, no the dirty on the external of the neck that I speak, are the graphite stamped by bushing.
This black for me can make some trouble for find pressure leakage on the neck

 

[Bora72]

I evaluate whether or not the necks even need cleaning before doing anything, just try wiping a few with some Hoppes non copper cleaner, see how they look, if it's not mostly coming off, I toss them all in the tumbler, which is usually only after probably 5-6 firngs min. With the kind of pressures & temps the neck sees, microscopic holes tend to get opened up real quick, can't say as I recall ever seeing one anyway, never had a split neck on any of my stuff either, even with 12 shots on non annealed brass.YMMV, but, suspecting you are overthinking it, we are all at the mercy of the makeup and processing of the new brass, some brands may actually be better than others in that respect, some cartridges seem more prone to neck defects than others. I've used mostly WW or Rem brass over the years, I have RWS, Peterson, Starline, Hornady, a few unknown relabelled ones like Browning, Sierra, Herter's. Only times I've had any issues, were with primer pocket expansion on Norma and Federal, and they were hot loads anyway, which usully wrecks most all makes. Had some issues with separation rings developing early, in the early days before I figured out how to size a case properly.

Hello, thanks for the detailled post.
I make some test with ballistol or KG Carbon remover.

 

[Bora72]

YES, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
To remove Cu galling/deposit on your mandrel, bushings or dies try some Bore Tech Cu+2 solvent or any good quality solvent made for copper removal. The Bore Tech is a water base product and not as noxious or hazardous as some types of copper remover solvents...
I was using black nitride mandrels from 21st Century just dry and they soon collected copper deposits that caused galling on the neck ID and in worse case, collapsed the neck into the shoulder...
After several applications of solvent, rubbing to remove as much as will come off, then leave to soak 12-24 hrs if any deposits remain. I wrapped my mandrel in a paper towel soaked with the Cu+2 and left it for a day for an 'as new" return to a clean finish.
A "Non-Scratch" nylon scrubber {white one, green ones are quite abrasive} is helpful.
I NOW, lubricate the inside of the case neck with my home made version of Neo Lube #2 made with door lock graphite and 100% Isopropyl alcohol {1/2 tsp + 15ml alcohol} and apply a quick wipe inside the neck with a cotton bud. This amount will last forever... Just stir up the product before use and add a bit more alcohol if it looks like it is too thick anymore, just wants to be black watery looking for the lightest coating and quick drying. I store in a baby food bottle = small enough to reach to the bottom with a Q-tip.
In the time it takes to treat a 50rd tray of brass the product is dry and you will be ready to use the first cases in the loading block.
The alcohol dries quickly and leaves an ultra fine coating the insures smooth passage of either a mandrel or the conventional inside expanding ball.
I have tried dry lubes and found them messy {Think the black moly especially} not as good nor as quick to apply and have experienced scratching/galling when using them on the exterior of the case...
I suspect that it may be from microscopic particles of the ceramic media that the powder is suspended in.
This has been the case with Imperial dry lube and the 21st Century product.
Foster makes a system that uses "White Graphite" {hBN} that is applied using a bore brush mounted inside a container that will work {NO mess on the outside of the neck} but is slow and tedious as the cover must be put back on and the container shaken to re-coat the brush about every 6-10 cases and still does not seem to be as lubricious as the graphite applied in the alcohol mixture.
For the exterior of the cases just apply a very light wipe of Imperial Die Wax or even better if you can find it Ballistic Case Wax; a little goes a long way and a tin will last for thousands of cases...!
Wipes off quickly with a paper towel unlike the oil based lubricants that can leave a oily coating that picks up dust and dirt even when wiped down unless you spend extra care.

Thanks for ALL your advices, I'm new from ammo reloading ad this forum and the folks of the forum are for me a mine of precious Infos!

 

[KMW 1954]

I ask for FL sizing and external side of the neck.

Thanks

I use Lee FL sizing dies with the expander/primer pin and I lube with Hornady Unique. I use enough to wet the ball of my index finger and thumb. I then roll the case between them from top to bottom, including the out side of the neck. Have never stuck a case nor do I experience shoulder denting from the lube.