Neck lube for seating bullets?

[normmatzen]

My mentor in Australia and I both use Forrester precision seating die and have had the same problem with seated depth not being stable and varying up to 3-4 thou. My mentor made a modification to his die and I did as well. I had thought that my LEE press was introducing an error as it is not designed for over center action. I actually had been using a torque wrench for seating accuracy.
Well, after this little modification to the die, I don't bother measuring any more other than every dozen or so loads! Now, the bullets error in seating is in the small fraction of a thousandth.
My mentor has contacted Forrester concerning this point, and when they get back from the SHOT Show, they are supposed to comment. Then we will let this forum in on what we did.

 

[lurcher]

I have improved on the inserts of the sinclair tool to give more of a repeatable measurements without the bullets sticking in the inserts.

How did you do this some kind of polishing? I am checking bearing lengths using two sinclair inserts also.

As far as variation in seating depths goes. Is all the brass from the same batch/fired the same number of times? are you annealing? variation in neck tension might affect seating also. You could try polishing the inside of case necks using scotch bright or 0000 steel wool and then apply a little imperial dry lube mixed with ethanol to the necks using a q-tip. Do this prior to priming and let the ethanol dry off before priming.

I also have trouble using a hornady/sinclair insert-type comparator and getting better than say 2 thou consistency. I just bought a larry willis head space tool. Apparently you can measure OAL with it as well. Haven't tried it for that yet but it sure works good for measuring shoulder bump.

 

[bozo699]

lurcher,
I had different inserts built for the sinclair comparator, there is another guy interested in them I will try to get a pic of it and post in a day or two. I also have a Larry Willis tool, I thought about trying to measure bullets and oal with it to see how it would do,I agree it works great on shoulder bump.
Wayne.

 

[Tozguy]

Norm, Do you mean Forster ?
Looking forward to hearing about your mod.

 

[Shakeber]

I use an RCBS trim mate that chamfers and deburrs the case mouth, it also cleans the primer pocket. It will make the primer pockets uniform in size, also brushes the inside of the neck and finally it holds dry lube for dipping the case mouth for lubing for bullet seating. It allows the bullets to be seated in a smooth step rather than have differing pressures to seat the bullets. I have good success with it. So... lubing the case mouth is recommended.

 

[bozo699]

Shakeber,
The dry n/k lube on the trim mate is for n/k sizing the brass, and is supposed to be brushed out before loading the case.
Wayne.

 

[oht]

Some good information from the past.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/forum/index.php/topic,2939110.msg28367692.html#msg28367692

http://www.accurateshooter.com/forum/index.php/topic,3743267.0.html

 

[normmatzen]

YA! Tosguy.
I don't shoot very well, but I shoot better than I spell! Forster it is.

 

[normmatzen]

My Australian Mentor got a reply from Forster about our observations and fix.

We found that 1. the set-up directions didn't make much sense at all. We set our die up so that when the press is open all the way, there was just room to insert a bullet. That allowed us to have a better "feel" for the actual insertion force seating the bullet. By the way, we both have LEE presses with the breech lock feature. 2.We found that the inner sleeve would not recess all the way into the outer sleeve because the spring was coil binding.
3.What we did, was take the spring out and grind the ends of the spring down on the side of a grinder till when re-assembled, the inner sleeve would go a few thou into the outer sleeve. SUPER! Now I find it essentially a waste of time to measure OAL with my comparater except maybe 1 in 12 for QC only. The length is within a fraction of a thou. Before the spring mod, I would have 1-4 thou uncertainty. In fact, I resorted to operating the press with a torque wrench!
Now, the precision of the Forster precision die is < 0.001!

We are happy campers!

What Forster told my Mentor was that they realized this effect and had changed the spring to one slightly longer, but with thinner wire so it had the same pressure, but allowed the inner sleeve to go slightly into the outer sleeve. Forster has these springs available, give them a call.

 

[Shakeber]

Bozo, If the dry lube is supposed to be removed then I have been doing it wrong. One question though, The chamferring, deburring, flash hole deburring, primer pocket cleaning is all done post resizing. If you are correct, then when using the trim mate I am supposed to dip the brass in the lube, then resize, then come back to the trim mate for the remaining steps?

 

[bozo699]

Bozo, If the dry lube is supposed to be removed then I have been doing it wrong. One question though, The chamferring, deburring, flash hole deburring, primer pocket cleaning is all done post resizing. If you are correct, then when using the trim mate I am supposed to dip the brass in the lube, then resize, then come back to the trim mate for the remaining steps?

Nope you are 100% spot on.
Wayne.

 

[queen_stick]

There are a lot of top shooters that lube the inside of the case neck before seating the bullet. The reason is it helps eliminate base to ogive variances. Two (three) ways to do it:

Moly or hBN coat the bullets. You'll be amazed what a difference it makes in base to ogive repeatability.

Moly lube inside the case neck. NECO sells a kit to do this or you can just put some lead or steel shot and some moly in a small container and twist the neck in it.

Bill Shehane, 1000 yard shooter of the year a couple years ago uses a q-tip wet with Lock-Ease. That works too.

There are at least a dozen threads here about this subject. Do a search on "lube" with a member name of JB1000BR.

In reading through this forum over the past few years, I read in multiple threads where JB posted, stating that he was doing that.

I use the same dry-lube that JB uses, and dip the bullets into it prior to seating. The argument, is that lubing the neck or bullet body will create an easier seating operation that will reduce runout, and also prevent a cold-weld if the rounds will be sitting for a while.

Walt