neck diameter ?

[atlatl]

Could someone please suggest what the appropriate neck diameter should be for a 30'06 full length sizer die? Sizing brass in my Redding die,without the expander ball, gives an outside diameter of .333. This results in almost no neck tension using Winchester brass, which as best as I can determine has a wall thickness of .012.

I called Redding to see if perhaps the die I have was out of spec- they were less than helpful on the phone.I was told " ...it should be fine." The Redding representative either would not, or was unable to tell me to what dimension the neck of their standard full length 30'06 sizing dies are cut.

Thank you

 

['Freak]

What’s the case neck outside diameter with seated bullet? Have those necks been turned thinner? I ask because Sierra’s 30-06 cartridge cartoon shows a .340” neck OD indicating a .016” neck wall thickness, fer however well that matches up with real world brass …

 

[atlatl]

Necks have not been turned. Loaded rounds measure .332-.333. I can seat boat tail bullets with finger pressure about half way to final depth.

I believe my Redding die was cut too generous in the neck but Redding did not seem to be interested in exploring the issue.

 

[Shynloco]

Could someone please suggest what the appropriate neck diameter should be for a 30'06 full length sizer die? Sizing brass in my Redding die,without the expander ball, gives an outside diameter of .333. This results in almost no neck tension using Winchester brass, which as best as I can determine has a wall thickness of .012.

I called Redding to see if perhaps the die I have was out of spec- they were less than helpful on the phone.I was told " ...it should be fine." The Redding representative either would not, or was unable to tell me to what dimension the neck of their standard full length 30'06 sizing dies are cut.

Thank you

atlati,
It seems to me, that there is no such thing as an "appropriate neck diameter" without knowing what the specs are on your chamber. Without getting carried away in this question, different rifles have different chamber specs, but all across the counter chamber meet SAMMI specs. In other words, some are liberal in diameter and some are conservative (in size and the reamer used determines that diameter). The optimum casing clearance (at least that's what I'm told by most experts and competitors seeking ultimate accuracy and maintaining best case life) is .002. SO it's hard to give you a specific diameter to use on your brass without knowing the size of your chamber. But if you have an across the counter rifle chamber, do some testing for YOUR SPECIFIC CHAMBER and take some virgin brass, shoot it and measure the fired casing BEFORE resizing it. Chances are fairly good that your casing will have expanded to the maximum your chamber allows and then contract by .002 (or in that ballpark). Now you'll have a fairly good idea of how big that chamber is. If you are inclined to play, take a few of those fired casing and turn them slightly (by say .001 or .002) and repeat the process. Fire for effect and see if you accuracy improves. Remember also, each time you turn your brass, you are also changing Neck Tension as well. Hope that helps some.

Alex

 

[atlatl]

Thank you for the replies. My rifle's chamber neck is .340, but I fail to see how this would have much effect on the neck tension I am able to achieve on full length resized brass.

I was simply asking if a die with a .333 neck diameter would be considered typical or oversized?

Obviously, if I had brass with .015 neck wall thickness things would be great. Instead I have several hundred pieces of Winchester brass with .012-.013 neck walls and cannot get what I think is reasonable neck tension. None of this brass has been neck turned.

I am in the market for a new sizing die, but had hoped to learn whether this particular Redding die was out of tolerance. I have several other Redding dies ( 300WSM, .223, 6mm Rem AI) and have not had this issue previously.

Thanks.

 

[Shynloco]

Thank you for the replies. My rifle's chamber neck is .340, but I fail to see how this would have much effect on the neck tension I am able to achieve on full length resized brass.

I was simply asking if a die with a .333 neck diameter would be considered typical or oversized?

Obviously, if I had brass with .015 neck wall thickness things would be great. Instead I have several hundred pieces of Winchester brass with .012-.013 neck walls and cannot get what I think is reasonable neck tension. None of this brass has been neck turned.

I am in the market for a new sizing die, but had hoped to learn whether this particular Redding die was out of tolerance. I have several other Redding dies ( 300WSM, .223, 6mm Rem AI) and have not had this issue previously.

Thanks.

Got it. Here's what I would do and have done in the past. if in doubt, call Redding and arrange to send that die back to them and they will run a "tolerance" check on it. They've done that for me as I use mostly Redding Dies. I am a Lapua reloader which means I use mostly Lapua brass. An option you do have is to have one of the die maker make you a custom die that matches your needs (or in this case your brass). Not sure it's worth the expense of doing that if you are using Winchester brass which is not considered as good as some of the other brass on the market. But the Redding tolerance check is something I'd start off with as Redding has actually replaced a few of my dies over the years (at no cost) or cleaned them up.

Alex

 

[Sheldon N]

Looks like it's time to upgrade to a full length bushing die. Toss in a carbide sizing button and Ti coated .331 bushing while you're at it.

 

['Freak]

If the neck walls were thicker at say .015” to .016” even then having a sized neck OD of .333” fresh out a FL die lacking the expander ball seems a bit fat, leaving the neck ID ~ .006” less than bullet diameter prior to the expanding normally done in using a regular ol’ full length size die. Those .012” thin neck walls only make matters worse.

 

[mikecr]

My rifle's chamber neck is .340, but I fail to see how this would have much effect on the neck tension I am able to achieve on full length resized brass.
Obviously, if I had brass with .015 neck wall thickness things would be great. Instead I have several hundred pieces of Winchester brass with .012-.013 neck walls and cannot get what I think is reasonable neck tension. None of this brass has been neck turned.

It's not a die problem at all.
Your chamber neck is too large for that neck thickness. And it's too large for some other brands of brass(like Lapua) as well.
With this, you would have to size down 9-10thou, and with all the work-hardened spring back to counter.
You'll need a custom die and accepting of horrible neck conditions, or have the barrel set back & re-chambered, or replaced.

 

[CJ6]

, which as best as I can determine has a wall thickness of .012.



Thank you

That's on the thin side for most factory (unturned) brass, .0135-.015 is more common. so I don't think it's as much a die issue as it is that the brass you have has thinner than normal neck walls.

 

[atlatl]

It's not a die problem at all.
Your chamber neck is too large for that neck thickness. And it's too large for some other brands of brass(like Lapua) as well.
With this, you would have to size down 9-10thou, and with all the work-hardened spring back to counter.
You'll need a custom die and accepting of horrible neck conditions, or have the barrel set back & re-chambered, or replaced.

.340 is the neck diameter on many 30 06 reamers I have found. (chambers for hunting rifles- not match rifles) Ideally, loaded rounds would be .336-.337 and brass would be .014. Correct?

I guess a bushing die is likely in my future.

 

[blvedere]

Recently purchased a 30 cal 308 McGowen barrel on line. I have been having trouble making it shoot the way I want, 600 yards. Had a chamber cast made and found that the chamber neck was 0.348" and my loaded round was 0.333". Other than over working my brass do you, as I do, think this is effecting my load development. I have my own answers just want some other feedback. Thanks

 

[ballistic64]

.012" does seem pretty thin for new brass. The WW WSM brass I have, has a neck thickness of .016". I turn mine to .0125, but I have a .335 chamber. Could always bite the bullet and try another brand of brass.

 

[blvedere]

.012" does seem pretty thin for new brass. The WW WSM brass I have, has a neck thickness of .016". I turn mine to .0125, but I have a .335 chamber. Could always bite the bullet and try another brand of brass.

Yeah, when I prep my brass I always turn the necks after first fire forming to the chamber. This brass will always stay with this barrel. I have never had chamber necks this large that I know of. The Lapua brass miked out at .014 before the turned it.

 

[ireload2]

I have a 46 year old Bair die and a 1981 RCBS FL die in .30-06. Both measure .328 with a .001 increment gauge pin set.
You would probably find USGI military brass a bit thicker and heavier than your WW brass.
I have a lot of .30-06 SL-54 brass that was shot up in machine guns and it measures .013 to ,015 neck wall thickness measured with a
multi-anvil mike.

 

[Scott Harris]

Necks have not been turned. Loaded rounds measure .332-.333. I can seat boat tail bullets with finger pressure about half way to final depth.

I believe my Redding die was cut too generous in the neck but Redding did not seem to be interested in exploring the issue.

You want your sizing die to reduce the neck to .002-.003 less than the loaded round neck as a MINIMUM for cartridges to be used with a repeater. So, in your case, clearly the dies are not compatible with your brass. Either get thicker brass or a die that sizes the neck smaller. Good luck!

 

[DOGCAPPER]

Consider buying a bushing die with 3 maybe 6 bushings in the range compatible with your brass/chamber size.
Bushings are: Neck thicknessx2 + bullet diameter - .003 to .005 . Usual result is a tension of .0015-.0025.
Condition of brass and desired feel in seating are final condition of size.
Your current chamber/neck relationship is not conducive to accuracy.

 

[blvedere]

You want your sizing die to reduce the neck to .002-.003 less than the loaded round neck as a MINIMUM for cartridges to be used with a repeater. So, in your case, clearly the dies are not compatible with your brass. Either get thicker brass or a die that sizes the neck smaller. Good luck!

 

[blvedere]

Consider buying a bushing die with 3 maybe 6 bushings in the range compatible with your brass/chamber size.
Bushings are: Neck thicknessx2 + bullet diameter - .003 to .005 . Usual result is a tension of .0015-.0025.
Condition of brass and desired feel in seating are final condition of size.
Your current chamber/neck relationship is not conducive to accuracy.

How does a bushing die help when the is the barrel neck chamber size is 0.015" larger the the loaded round? I use Widden bushing dies now.

 

[Zero333]

Recently purchased a 30 cal 308 McGowen barrel on line. I have been having trouble making it shoot the way I want, 600 yards. Had a chamber cast made and found that the chamber neck was 0.348" and my loaded round was 0.333". Other than over working my brass do you, as I do, think this is effecting my load development. I have my own answers just want some other feedback. Thanks

If you're chamber really has a .348" neck, your fired brass neck will measure .3465"-.347" and someone owes you a new barrel.

You should start a different thread.