Neck Bushings- Bullet Central vs SAC

[SeabeeKen]

I've had Redding bushings not the size stamped on them and I've also got a few that the hole is not centered in the bushing

 

[rwj]

I'm more worried about a bushing being .223 and not a .226 it was stamped that I discovered with guage pins.
Not sure a .0001 will make a difference on target in a bushing or you can measure that accurately on bushings.
My guess is theres more to worry about in your loading processes than a bushing being .0001 out.

How much ovality and/or taper was detected using the pins to measure the bushing ID? It certainly is not zero and that was the reason for the caution.

 

[L.Sherm]

How much ovality and/or taper was detected using the pins to measure the bushing ID? It certainly is not zero and that was the reason for the caution.

I realize its probably not zero, but what is .0001?
I achieve what I'm after, it certainly isn't. 0001 on a bushing.

 

[L.Sherm]

Do you turn necks? If you do are they within .0001? Can you measure accurately. 0001 if you do? I can't, so what does .0001 matter?

 

[Ruger15151]

I have absolutely no problem measuring bushings with my veneer caliper.

The problem with that is that yoru calipers are only accurate to .001 which doesn't really tell you much. Pin guages are the most accurate way to measue the ID.

 

[padom]

I use whatever bushing gives me 0.004 under loaded neck diameter. The neck bushing sizes are just a reference number to me as annealing and springback all influence what the neck actually measures after sizing.

I then use the appropriate 21st Century mandrel as the last step to give me the neck tension I want.... 0.001, 0.002, etc..

This produces extremely straight ammo with little to no runout

 

[Old Navy]

The problem with that is that yoru calipers are only accurate to .001 which doesn't really tell you much. Pin guages are the most accurate way to measue the ID.

I understand that. I was in the Maintenance business for 45 years. Everyone does not need $20K worth of tools in their reloading room/shop to do a simple measurement. My calipers go out to .0000. They are accurate to .ooo5". I measured three different brands of bushings last night and every single one came in at exactly what they were marked. Could they be something less than .0005"? Sure they could. The most useful place for pins is in a temperature controlled metrology lab where tools that build rocket motors are measured. Where is Rocketvapor when you need him.

 

[rwj]

I realize its probably not zero, but what is .0001?
I achieve what I'm after, it certainly isn't. 0001 on a bushing.

Do you turn necks? If you do are they within .0001? Can you measure accurately. 0001 if you do? I can't, so what does .0001 matter?

Resolution is not the subject of my posts.

 

[L.Sherm]

Resolution is not the subject of my posts.

What is then? .0001 matters? Does it on target? I dont get what your after, unless its to prove that a .2501 pin won't go in a .2500 one.

 

[rwj]

What is then? .0001 matters? Does it on target? I dont get what your after, unless its to prove that a .2501 pin won't go in a .2500 one.

See post 19 in this thread… “Caution that gauge pins only measure the smallest diameter. They can not detect ovality.”

 

[L.Sherm]

See post 19 in this thread… “Caution that gauge pins only measure the smallest diameter. They can not detect ovality.”

LOL I understand were your coming from here BUT trying to split hairs is not were im at. I'm out!!

 

[Ruger15151]

I understand that. I was in the Maintenance business for 45 years. Everyone does not need $20K worth of tools in their reloading room/shop to do a simple measurement. My calipers go out to .0000. They are accurate to .ooo5". I measured three different brands of bushings last night and every single one came in at exactly what they were marked. Could they be something less than .0005"? Sure they could. The most useful place for pins is in a temperature controlled metrology lab where tools that build rocket motors are measured. Where is Rocket vapor when you need him.

Not looking for an argument about the best way of measuring things or what environment is best for the most accuracy. However, my Mitutoyo calipers measure within .0005 at best and my pin gauges are within .0002. Why wouldn't pin gauges be more accurate?

Anyway, I have measured 3 Redding Bushings marked .306 and only one measured to the correct size. Same is true with the sizing dies at the .200 line. Junk in my opinion. Bullet Central and Short Action Customs are always dead on.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what the bushing says if it gives you straight necks and the interference (not neck tension) that you what.

 

[Dave M.]

The actual size of the neck after sizing will generally be larger than the size of the bushing due to springback of the brass regardless of the bushing used. Now if you want to talk about consistency and or tolerance of the bushings actual size, that's different question.

I personally think the SAC bushings are the best in the industry. They are not cheap, but nobody cheap is reloading winning ammo.

 

[Dave M.]

Not looking for an argument about the best way of measuring things or what environment is best for the most accuracy. However, my Mitutoyo calipers measure within .0005 at best and my pin gauges are within .0002. Why wouldn't pin gauges be more accurate?

Anyway, I have measured 3 Redding Bushings marked .306 and only one measured to the correct size. Same is true with the sizing dies at the .200 line. Junk in my opinion. Bullet Central and Short Action Customs are always dead on.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what the bushing says if it gives you straight necks and the interference (not neck tension) that you what.

Just because your Mito calipers will measure to the half thou doesn’t mean they are accurate to a half thou. Calipers that show the 4th digit are a joke in my book. The correct tool to measure finished round outside diameter are flat face outside tube micrometers.
Dave

 

[JFrank]

I measure the OD of a sized case neck, that’s verification enough to shoot 1000 yard BR, I really doubt I can see any difference between a $50 bushing and a $18 bushing on paper at any distance.
I know some people just want to spend more money but it may be better spent elsewhere, like on wind flags for tuning.

 

[Ruger15151]

I measure the OD of a sized case neck, that’s verification enough to shoot 1000 yard BR, I really doubt I can see any difference between a $50 bushing and a $18 bushing on paper at any distance.
I know some people just want to spend more money but it may be better spent elsewhere, like on wind flags for tuning.

You are correct. The point was not that the $50 bushings were better than $18 bushings. The point was tht $18 bushing are seldom the size that is stamped on them.

At the end of the day, you use the bushing that gives you the interference you want, regardless what size is stamped on it or how much it cost.

 

[saunaking]

Reading this thread made me get out my pin gauges and check some of my bushings from Redding. Most of them were a thou under the size stamped on the bushing. Regardless of the size stamped on the bushing, I know what has worked for giving the neck tension I want. This might make me check every one of them in the future.

 

[padom]

Honestly, who cares what is written on them. I size a piece of fired brass and measure my necks with a mic and use the bushing that gives me the neck size I want. I have a whole set of Redding TiN bushings, many for every caliber I reload for... They have worked great for many many years.

I also have a pile of SAC bushings, they are very nice, the coating on them makes sizing necks very smooth... But again, who cares what the size is, I use whatever one gives me the end result Im looking for...

 

[memilanuk]

Honestly, who cares what is written on them. I size a piece of fired brass and measure my necks with a mic and use the bushing that gives me the neck size I want. I have a whole set of Redding TiN bushings, many for every caliber I reload for... They have worked great for many many years.

I also have a pile of SAC bushings, they are very nice, the coating on them makes sizing necks very smooth... But again, who cares what the size is, I use whatever one gives me the end result Im looking for...

Normally, I'd agree... my current gripe is that I seem to have found a 'not-so-sweet' spot where changing 0.001" in (measured) bushings size nets a 0.003" change in actual neck size. Which makes it a bit difficult to 'just pick the bushing that works best' and run with it. Apparently there's a point where that's not entirely uncommon, according to Al Warner (earlier in this thread) and other threads where they cite some info from Redding to the same effect. As a result... I'm not sure if spending more money on SAC bushings would 'fix' the problem or not...

 

[powderbrake]

This thread prompts me to measure my bushings, and the od of the neck after sizing, just to be double checking. Of course, the target results are what is important.

HOWEVER you cannot accurately measure the diameter of a bushing with calipers. The calipers have a flat on the face of the jaw, so you cannot get an accurate measurement on small inside diameters. I will use a small hole gage and my micrometer. I also have a set of .001 gage pins, but like prior comments stated, they only measure the minimum of the hole diameter, and to an accuracy of .001.

I had not given any thought to the eccentricity of the bushing ID, I think I will check a few to see how they do. I will use a caliper, which cannot give me an exact ID to OD measurement, but it will be repeatable, and can be used as a comparator measurement to determine eccentricity.