Neck Bushing Size

[titanxt]

I apologize if I am jumping around a lot in this forum, but I seem to have a 100 questions that lead to 100 more.

From another thread it was suggested that I either full length or neck size my cases - I have yet to commit either way, however, it seems that I need to settle on a bushing size no matter what. Of the last rounds that I loaded for my off the shelf Model 7, the outside of the neck measured .2470" with the bullet in place. What size bushing will I need?

Thank you!

Andy

 

[Dshooter]

If loaded round is .247, I would be using a .245 bushing. If your fired case neck OD is bigger than your bushing size by more than .006, you should size cases in steps with two different size bushings. Should never use a single bushing to size more than .006 at a time. .005 would be even better

 

[artbosco]

Please, Full Length Size ... Always!

For a loaded round OD of .247 start with .246, 245, 244, and 243 bushings. Your barrel will tell you which one it likes. Keep your eyes on the target.

Don't forget that Seating Depth is part of the Fine Tuning process too.

 

[CatShooter]

Please, Full Length Size ... Always!

For a loaded round OD of .247 start with .246, 245, 244, and 243 bushings. Your barrel will tell you which one it likes. Keep your eyes on the target.

Don't forget that Seating Depth is part of the Fine Tuning process too.

For an off the rack rifle, like a Model 7, it is silly to spend $125 on Bushings - get a 0.245" and get on with loading.

 

[/VH]

It's been a couple years since I've loaded any .223 but from my notes; it looks like I was using a .247 with Lapua brass and a .244 with Remington and Hornady, all unturned necks.

 

[mikecr]

+1 CatShooter

 

[titanxt]

Please, Full Length Size ... Always!

For a loaded round OD of .247 start with .246, 245, 244, and 243 bushings. Your barrel will tell you which one it likes. Keep your eyes on the target.

Don't forget that Seating Depth is part of the Fine Tuning process too.

Can you help me out a bit and explain further why I should full length resize?

Thank you!!!

Andy

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Please, Full Length Size ... Always!

For a loaded round OD of .247 start with .246, 245, 244, and 243 bushings. Your barrel will tell you which one it likes. Keep your eyes on the target.

Don't forget that Seating Depth is part of the Fine Tuning process too.

Can you help me out a bit and explain further why I should full length resize?

Thank you!!!

Andy

Andy. Reloading is all about consistency. Do the same thing every time. Therefore full length resize. Regards JCS

 

[CatShooter]

Please, Full Length Size ... Always!

For a loaded round OD of .247 start with .246, 245, 244, and 243 bushings. Your barrel will tell you which one it likes. Keep your eyes on the target.

Don't forget that Seating Depth is part of the Fine Tuning process too.

Can you help me out a bit and explain further why I should full length resize?

Thank you!!!

Andy

Full Sizing every time is fine for a custom match chamber and using a custom made FL die that maybe touches the brass 0.001"

But for a factory chamber in a hunting rifle, with an off the rack set of dies, a FL die will beat the livin' crap out of your brass, and you will suffer case stretching at the web, and eventually, head separations. Get a neck size die and make your life easy, and your cases will love you for it.

Neck sizing IS consistent. The case is a perfect fit all the time.

 

[mikecr]

Reloading is all about consistency. Do the same thing every time. Therefore full length resize.

In many cases this is the best plan.
In many cases this is the worst plan.

Depends on whole pile of things.
Keep in mind that consistency includes long lasting consistency, and is more than easy chambering.

 

[Shynloco]

Please, Full Length Size ... Always!

For a loaded round OD of .247 start with .246, 245, 244, and 243 bushings. Your barrel will tell you which one it likes. Keep your eyes on the target.

Don't forget that Seating Depth is part of the Fine Tuning process too.

Can you help me out a bit and explain further why I should full length resize?

Thank you!!!

Andy

Full Sizing every time is fine for a custom match chamber and using a custom made FL die that maybe touches the brass 0.001"

But for a factory chamber in a hunting rifle, with an off the rack set of dies, a FL die will beat the livin' crap out of your brass, and you will suffer case stretching at the web, and eventually, head separations. Get a neck size die and make your life easy, and your cases will love you for it.

Neck sizing IS consistent. The case is a perfect fit all the time.

Cat is absolutely correct IMHO. BUT, if you are an absolute ACCURACY FREAK (like me), I've tested the FL sizing vs Neck Sizing methods (over time) and have concluded, I simply get my BEST results (accuracy wise) when I FL size each time. I do not hunt any longer, but can say, without reservation that Neck Sizing works great and saves the life of your brass in the long run. But since I only shoot Benchrest style anymore, I FL size my Lapua brass each and every time regardless of how long it lasts in any of the calibers I shoot. I'm just looking for overall consistency with each and every casing as much is humanly possible.

Alex

 

[CatShooter]

But Alex... do you use a $20 FL die??

I currently shoot two BR guns, a 222 family and a 6mmBR, and I neck size for both, with no problems.

You should remember that many records were set with neck sized cases and some of them stood for almost 1/2 a century.

The reason that BR shooters "full size" (with custom dies that barely touch the case) is not because of grouping ability, but because the shooting style has changed over the years, and a competitor will wait until a lull in the wind, and then rip off the entire string of shots in 15 to 20 seconds - that is one every 3 to 4 seconds.

At that speed, the shooter has no time to reset the rifle in the bags if it roll to one side when closing the bolt... so the bolt MUST close with absolutely NO resistance. IF you don't shoot short range bench, there is no reason to FL size with any kind of die - neck sizing is the better choice.

That is the reason for the custom dies that bench shooters use... they can hardly be called full size dies, because they do not fully resize the case - they bring it down 1 or 2 thou, whereas a "Off The Rack" FL die will size a case upwards of 10 thou in the shoulder and 6 thou in the body - a BR shooter would NEVER consider using such a die.

 

[Shynloco]

But Alex... do you use a $20 FL die??

I currently shoot two BR guns, a 222 family and a 6mmBR, and I neck size for both, with no problems.

You should remember that many records were set with neck sized cases and some of them stood for almost 1/2 a century.

The reason that BR shooters "full size" (with custom dies that barely touch the case) is not because of grouping ability, but because the shooting style has changed over the years, and a competitor will wait until a lull in the wind, and then rip off the entire string of shots in 15 to 20 seconds - that is one every 3 to 4 seconds.

At that speed, the shooter has no time to reset the rifle in the bags if it roll to one side when closing the bolt... so the bolt MUST close with absolutely NO resistance. IF you don't shoot short range bench, there is no reason to FL size with any kind of die - neck sizing is the better choice.

That is the reason for the custom dies that bench shooters use... they can hardly be called full size dies, because they do not fully resize the case - they bring it down 1 or 2 thou, whereas a "Off The Rack" FL die will size a case upwards of 10 thou in the shoulder and 6 thou in the body - a BR shooter would NEVER consider using such a die.

Cat,

Makes sense. And I WISH my dies only cost $20 a piece, but they are hardly custom dies and are not custom made for my rifle's chambers. Perhaps it's just my perceptions, but getting each and every casing as uniform as possible (overall) just has worked better for me in terms of consistent grouping. And although I have some nice and accurate rifles, only one is a custom build and is hardly SERIOUS competition worthy. Overall, it's just a matter for me of being as critical as I can with my ammo prep because in all honesty, your's truly is the weakest link in the chain of accuracy, thanks to a wonderful thing called the "aging process." But thanks for the detailed explanation that bears serious consideration.

Alex

 

[artbosco]

Please, Full Length Size ... Always!

For a loaded round OD of .247 start with .246, 245, 244, and 243 bushings. Your barrel will tell you which one it likes. Keep your eyes on the target.

Don't forget that Seating Depth is part of the Fine Tuning process too.

For an off the rack rifle, like a Model 7, it is silly to spend $125 on Bushings - get a 0.245" and get on with loading.

We hope that at some point that a person who's interested in neck sizing will eventually move up to a better barrel. Hopefully a minimum chamber or even a tight neck chamber as part of the evolution towards accuracy. I tend to encourage learning vice denigrating current equipment.

 

[CatShooter]

But Alex... do you use a $20 FL die??

I currently shoot two BR guns, a 222 family and a 6mmBR, and I neck size for both, with no problems.

You should remember that many records were set with neck sized cases and some of them stood for almost 1/2 a century.

The reason that BR shooters "full size" (with custom dies that barely touch the case) is not because of grouping ability, but because the shooting style has changed over the years, and a competitor will wait until a lull in the wind, and then rip off the entire string of shots in 15 to 20 seconds - that is one every 3 to 4 seconds.

At that speed, the shooter has no time to reset the rifle in the bags if it roll to one side when closing the bolt... so the bolt MUST close with absolutely NO resistance. IF you don't shoot short range bench, there is no reason to FL size with any kind of die - neck sizing is the better choice.

That is the reason for the custom dies that bench shooters use... they can hardly be called full size dies, because they do not fully resize the case - they bring it down 1 or 2 thou, whereas a "Off The Rack" FL die will size a case upwards of 10 thou in the shoulder and 6 thou in the body - a BR shooter would NEVER consider using such a die.

Cat,

Makes sense. And I WISH my dies only cost $20 a piece, but they are hardly custom dies and are not custom made for my rifle's chambers. Perhaps it's just my perceptions, but getting each and every casing as uniform as possible (overall) just has worked better for me in terms of consistent grouping. And although I have some nice and accurate rifles, only one is a custom build and is hardly SERIOUS competition worthy. Overall, it's just a matter for me of being as critical as I can with my ammo prep because in all honesty, your's truly is the weakest link in the chain of accuracy, thanks to a wonderful thing called the "aging process." But thanks for the detailed explanation that bears serious consideration.

Alex

Alex...

My most preferred die setup these days is:

1 - Redding Competition Neck sizing bushing die - these have a sleeve like a bullet seater - holds the case firmly, and then brings the bushing down on the neck while everything is in axial alignment to <0.001"

I get less than 1 thou runout on my .220 Swift and .224 cases... got to love them.

Then

2 - A Redding Comp or a Forster Ultra seater.

And if needed, a Lyman "M" die for seating flat based bullets.

I have had one of my bench guns for 40 years, with no FL die, and only bought one last year (used on eBay for $12) because someone gave me ~200 fired cases that wouldn't chamber.

 

[CatShooter]

Please, Full Length Size ... Always!

For a loaded round OD of .247 start with .246, 245, 244, and 243 bushings. Your barrel will tell you which one it likes. Keep your eyes on the target.

Don't forget that Seating Depth is part of the Fine Tuning process too.

For an off the rack rifle, like a Model 7, it is silly to spend $125 on Bushings - get a 0.245" and get on with loading.

We hope that at some point that a person who's interested in neck sizing will eventually move up to a better barrel. Hopefully a minimum chamber or even a tight neck chamber as part of the evolution towards accuracy. I tend to encourage learning vice denigrating current equipment.

Outdoorsman...

There is an old saying, "To a hammer, everything needs a nail!"

Unfortunately, the same can be said of wannabee BR shooters. "All rifles must adhere to the dictates of short range BR shooting!"

But as we evolve as shooters and do more than one discipline of shooting, we see that there are other requirements in the accurate shooting world. E.i. the world of "Accurate shooters" covers much more than tight necked short range BR rifles.

So to paraphrase your remark... "We (who ever that "we" is) hope that at some point that a person who's interested in short range BR shooting, will eventually grow up up to have a better understanding of the shooting world outside of his own myopic interests."

The short range BR world is a very small (and continually shrinking) segment of accuracy shooting.

 

[titanxt]

Please, Full Length Size ... Always!

For a loaded round OD of .247 start with .246, 245, 244, and 243 bushings. Your barrel will tell you which one it likes. Keep your eyes on the target.

Don't forget that Seating Depth is part of the Fine Tuning process too.

For an off the rack rifle, like a Model 7, it is silly to spend $125 on Bushings - get a 0.245" and get on with loading.

We hope that at some point that a person who's interested in neck sizing will eventually move up to a better barrel. Hopefully a minimum chamber or even a tight neck chamber as part of the evolution towards accuracy. I tend to encourage learning vice denigrating current equipment.

That is a valid point - you can only shine a turd so much I guess. However, back in the days of being single and carefree with money, I had a custom 308. I spared no expense on what I thought I needed at the time. I quickly learned that there was far more to accurate shooting than spending several thousands of dollars on a rifle and optics. Fast forward to today with children and other $$ hobbies, I am interested in getting factory rifles to shoot their best by reasonably pursuing accurate loading (reasonable in the sense that I wont be spending the money to get custom dies when the rifle is the limiting factor). I love the science behind the pursuit and I enjoy learning all that I can from your replies. I would like to get to the point where I can say that the rifle is holding me back, not me holding the rifle back.

Thank you!!

Andy