Redding type S die, will not size neck all the way to neck shoulder junction and bump / kiss shoulder. The bushing adjustment is screwed all the way in. Not a way to adjust shell holder height, forster co-ax press. I would like for the bushing to float a little to self align. Should I just chuck the die up in the lathe and take few thousands off the bottom of the die ? Will this get me where I want to go? Am I thinking clearly on this?
Neck Bushing Problem
- Thread starter Jtate
- Start date
RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
The old Redding Type S bushing die does have a small gap to the shoulder junction. That isn't something you are doing wrong. Some bushings have a slight difference in each chamfer and can give a slightly different result depending on which way you load it into the die, but those differences are small.
Usually there is enough leeway to allow the bushing to float if you want it to without sacrificing much of the neck sizing length.
On the shoulder bump and overall sizing issue, the main part of the die should still function as a body die, so I have to ask if you are getting to where the die is touching the shell holder or are you ending with a gap?
In your question above, it isn't clear if you are bottoming out the die on the shell holder.
What caliber are we discussing and is this brass new, or fire formed?
Usually there is enough leeway to allow the bushing to float if you want it to without sacrificing much of the neck sizing length.
On the shoulder bump and overall sizing issue, the main part of the die should still function as a body die, so I have to ask if you are getting to where the die is touching the shell holder or are you ending with a gap?
In your question above, it isn't clear if you are bottoming out the die on the shell holder.
What caliber are we discussing and is this brass new, or fire formed?
The bushing will also have a slight radius so it cannot size the neck all the way to the shoulder
If the die is bottoming out maybe take a few thousandth off of the top of the shellholder instead of the die.
And why should it ?
Why not' take a few thousands off the bottom of the die ?
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RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
Let's try something simple first.
Pull the bushing out completely. Take a case you sized that gives you the problem with the bolt closure.
Try and size again with the die bottomed out on your press and let's see if it closes easy.
If that still doesn't work, do you have access to a regular press that takes a regular shell holder on a ram? Try the die there and then see if the brass will work.
If that still doesn't work, we have a higher level problem in terms of tools and reference gages that will be needed to determine if the chamber or the die/sizing is contributing.
ETA: What specific die part number do you have? Does it say 77223 or 71223?
Pull the bushing out completely. Take a case you sized that gives you the problem with the bolt closure.
Try and size again with the die bottomed out on your press and let's see if it closes easy.
If that still doesn't work, do you have access to a regular press that takes a regular shell holder on a ram? Try the die there and then see if the brass will work.
If that still doesn't work, we have a higher level problem in terms of tools and reference gages that will be needed to determine if the chamber or the die/sizing is contributing.
ETA: What specific die part number do you have? Does it say 77223 or 71223?
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Below is a Redding type S full length bushing die, and the area between the red arrows is not sized. I'm not 100% sure why Redding does this but it might be the "The Dreaded Donut Zone" that should not be sized.
My second guess is if you can't bump the shoulder back then you have a bushing neck sizing die.
My second guess is if you can't bump the shoulder back then you have a bushing neck sizing die.
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Dusty Stevens
Shiner
You can have a machinist or your gunsmith run an end mill in there on his lathe to cut that unsized distance down a bit. Also make sure your bushing doesnt have that huge radius pictured above on that rcbs unit. Redding bushings are usually decent and the whiddens are good for that. Using a bushing like that on a redding die you may not could even size half the neck. Taking material off the die or shellholder will only bump the case more with the exact same amount unsized on the neck
One positive aspect of not sizing the neck all the way down to the shoulder is that the case will tend to center in the chamber better. I only size about 2/3's of the neck for that reason, but really don't need more than that because that's about where the bullet heal sits with the ogive touching lands on a benchrest only gun.
I would be worried that a bushing that sized into the shoulder might put a stress riser there and cause case separation at the neck/shoulder.
I would be worried that a bushing that sized into the shoulder might put a stress riser there and cause case separation at the neck/shoulder.
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Buy a Wilson bushing and flip it over. They are only radiused on one side. You may have to do them the normal way first, then resize with the bushing flipped, otherwise you could have trouble getting them started into the bushing.
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Picture is worth a thousand wordsBelow is a Redding type S full length bushing die, and the area between the red arrows is not sized. I'm not 100% sure why Redding does this but it might be the "The Dreaded Donut Zone" that should not be sized.
My second guess is if you can't bump the shoulder back then you have a bushing neck sizing die.
Once upon a time LE Wilson was the only commercial bushing die manufacturer, which used an arbor press. Turned necks and bushings, BR shooters didn’t size all the way to the shoulder. Redding appeared with a threaded FL bushing die that placed bushing location setup like the Wilson. Thus, the die does not size to the shoulder.
Dusty
I recall an interview where Speedy Gonzalez was discussing the type (Speedy) die and he took .015 off the base then drilled out for the bushing.
I can't remember who did that interview, any idea?
The die part # is 71223. I am picking up a old rock chucker this weekend. Before I started this post I searched the forum for similar problems the most common " fix " was to remove material from shell holder, which is impractical on a CO-AX press. I know the die is " neck only " and is technically not designed to bump, but I have never had this problem before with a redding die. I should have bought the forster die ect. The rifle is a HS Precision by the way. I have been from the school of neck size only, work the brass as little as possible ( for bolt rifles ) I almost never full length size, for fire formed brass in same rifle. This is a 1st for me having this much bolt resistance closing on a fire formed case.
divingin
Gold $$ Contributor
So, the OP has probably figured out that the design of the Type S bushing die does not size to the neck shoulder junction, and its likely not a problem.
The sizing aspect of the original post: Are you sure you have a Redding Full Bushing Die? They have 2 types: The aforementioned, and a Neck Bushing Die. The latter will not bump the shoulder (requires use of a separate body die to push the shoulder back.)
If you have a Full Bushing Die, you can try slipping a blade of a feeler gauge between the case head and whatever the case head butts up against on a CoAx press. That should help remove any slop between the case rim and the shellholder jaws, and raise the case up a bit more into the die.
The sizing aspect of the original post: Are you sure you have a Redding Full Bushing Die? They have 2 types: The aforementioned, and a Neck Bushing Die. The latter will not bump the shoulder (requires use of a separate body die to push the shoulder back.)
If you have a Full Bushing Die, you can try slipping a blade of a feeler gauge between the case head and whatever the case head butts up against on a CoAx press. That should help remove any slop between the case rim and the shellholder jaws, and raise the case up a bit more into the die.
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