neck bushing die question: redding full length S bushie

[knguyen]

first time with new cartridge:
6 BR
lapua 6BR brass
question i have is : time loading the brand new brass, do i use the redding bushings right away or do i use it after the brass has been fired the first time in order to setup neck tension:

currently loaded round neck size is 0.268, so I have a 0.267 bushing and a .266 bushing: which bushing should i use first?

I am new at using bushing dies.
thanks alot
khanh

 

[SS427]

I have older "gold box" Lapua brass and my loaded rounds measure .2695 to .270. I use a .267 bushing. A .268 bushing doesn't give me enough neck tension. I actually think I need to drop down to a .266 bushing now that the brass has been fired a number of times.

Based on your number of a .268 loaded round, you must be using the newer "blue box" Lapua brass. I think you are going to have to use the .266 bushing or you won't have enough neck tension. .002 or .003 neck tension is what I generally go for.

All my Lapua brass has been in great shape when I got it, so unless I needed to turn the necks, I've always just loaded it and fired it.

 

[knguyen]

Otter, so would I just right away use my .266 bushing right away when I first load my first ever round with new brass or use the bushing only after that brass has been fired once?
This part iam not clear on

Yes, it is blue box lapua
Thanks
Khanh

 

[Tim Singleton]

In my experience the un fired brass is super tight neck tension on the first firing
Did the dummy round bullet require a lot of force to seat?

Right or wrong I run new Lapua brass through my KM expander mandrel then my redding bushing die with a .266 bushing.

You don't have to expand it. But it is so tight as new, any information you get from firing it this way is kinda useless. Because you reload them and end up with a completely different neck tension. So you've really wasted powder primer bullets barrel life and time

Expand first, my 2 cents

 

[knguyen]

Tim:when I loaded the dummy round bullet seating was pretty easy, no real pressure was needed, I use redding competition seater die.

It makes sense what say about expanding first then use bushing dies with a neck sizer to get consistent neck tension,

after first firing the neck OD is clearly different when compared to fresh virgin brass.

So , I think expander neck first with mandrel then full length sized with neck bushing size should give more consistent neck tension from even virgin brass,

Lots for me to learn
Khanh

 

[SS427]

I would follow Tim's advice. If you do have an expanding mandrel, I would use it and then use the .266 bushing for final sizing. And I would do this before firing for the first time.

If you don't have the expanding mandrel and the bullets seat in the virgin brass with reasonable pressure, running them through the .266 bushing won't accomplish much if anything, at least in my opinion. I don't think you could expect much consistency without the mandrel, which is the key. Using the mandrel along with the .266 bushing will give you the consistency you are after.

For some reason I was thinking you had a neck die only, which doesn't have an expander.

With my factory rifles I've never realized much accuracy gains with adjusting neck tension, thus my comment about load and fire the first time without sizing. I may need to reconsider this since what Tim's wrote makes sense. With the few rifles I have capable of consistent 1/4 inch groups neck tension does make a difference but in those cases I've had to turn the necks first.

 

[Mega]

No matter what calibre and in my case any target calibre I have uses Lapua Cases.

Virgin cases I always FLS with a standard FLS Die then trim all to a standard length, then even if I am not Neck Turning I run a K&M Expander Mandrel through the whole batch of virgin cases. Those that I am not turning then I will run them through my Wilson Bushing Neck Die so I end up with a consistant within reason neck tension. I would never just load a virgin case out of the box no matter what brand.

I have done this Fire Forming Cases and have seen very little if any change in accuracy once I have established my accuracy powder load to the second and so firings.

Barrel life is the key, why waste it just fire forming cases or firing virgin cases that can possibly be all over the place as far as neck tension, when you can extract very good accuracy from the get go.

I don't have any or know anything about Redding Bushing Dies as I am very happy with the results and cost of Wilson In-Line Dies plus using an Arbor Press gives a very excellent feel of pressure seating bullets that a normal press does not. I strive with my target calibres to achieve 0.2MOA or better on a consistant basis which really depends on my own concentration levels to keep it all on track during a day.

 

[timeout]

Tim:when I loaded the dummy round bullet seating was pretty easy, no real pressure was needed, I use redding competition seater die.

It makes sense what say about expanding first then use bushing dies with a neck sizer to get consistent neck tension,

after first firing the neck OD is clearly different when compared to fresh virgin brass.

So , I think expander neck first with mandrel then full length sized with neck bushing size should give more consistent neck tension from even virgin brass,

Lots for me to learn
Khanh

When seating with a single stage press, you will be unable to feel seating pressure, as there is a mechanical advantage built in by design. Buy a Wilson chamber type bullet seater and an arbor press. You will then be able to "feel" seating pressure. The guys above are correct in advising you to run an expander mandrel through first and then resize the neck on virgin brass. I have also gone away from any operation that removes all of the carbon from the inside of fired brass necks. I simply make a couple passes inside the neck with a nylon brush. I seem to get more even neck tension that way. Don't worry a bunch about exact neck tension until you have fired the brass, found a charge weight by ladder testing, and adjusted seating depth to achieve your best groups. After completing those steps, try changing neck tension to further tighten your groups. I tend to start with a bushing .003" smaller than loaded neck diameter.

 

[barefooter56]

Kuguyen,
On new brass leave the expander ball in the die and use the .267 bushing. After the first firing do a test if you want using a concentricity gauge to check a loaded once fired dummy round . Load one dummy leaving the expander ball in the die and one with it removed to see which one gives you the least runout. Always check the loaded bullet as close to the caseneck/ bullet junction as you can get the dial indicator probe and preload the dial indicator at least .010-.015 on the object you are measuring before checking. If the expanderball is best upgrade to the Redding carbide ball. If not. remove the expander ball and use the black decap pin retainer in place of the expander ball to hold the decap pin. If you NEVER want to use the expanderball in the die . Get a Sinclair expander die and the 6mm expander mandrel to run your case necks over when loading new brass for the first time. Hope this helps.
Take care,
Phil Hoham
Berger Bullet tech

 

[knguyen]

Thanks for all the help, will work up some more loads.

Shot 13 rounds the other slowly at 100 yard with first set of bullets just to break in rifle slowly,
Was amazed , 29 gr varget at .0150 off land, Amax 105 and was able to get .5moa group,

With more time and tinkering loads ,hope it gets even better

Lots to learn
Khanh

 

[Tim Singleton]

A big help, IMO
After you work thru the Amax move to the Berger
You will probably be surprised at the difference.
they are well worth the cost, if small groups are the goal
Plinking and Varminting Amax are good

 

[knguyen]

i had one box of 105 amax, which i thought would be great way to break in the rifle.
i have now the 105 berger which i will shoot after i finish off the 105 amax
what is very different is the shape of both bullets: the berger are distinct different shape as to the location of the ogive

for the hornady 105 amax: i load to 1.778( measured at the the ogive, off land for my rifle by 0.015)
for the berget 105, i measure last last night, preliminary wise looks to be a lot longer bullet when seated to the land of my savage model 12 6BR,)
i will try to load the berger right at close to the land and then start from there,
i have never as of yet loaded a round jammed, but i have heard that this bullet and rifle shoot well when bit jammed.
i will try to start with 29 gr varget for the berger also, just on land or off a bit and play to see what makes rifle happy)

gotta question: Does Reloader 15 powder load, burn rate similar to varget?? can i use similar grains:: safe to start reloader 15 at say 29 gr?

thanks alot for all the help
khanh

 

[jcampbellsmith]

first time with new cartridge:
6 BR
lapua 6BR brass
question i have is : time loading the brand new brass, do i use the redding bushings right away or do i use it after the brass has been fired the first time in order to setup neck tension:......

The approach I take with new brass is only to run an expander mandrel through it, then I load and shoot it. I develop a load for my new brass.

Once I'm sizing my brass (with or without a bushing die) and into my current brass prep cycle, I then develop a fired brass load which may or may not be different from my new brass load.

Regards

JCS

 

[barefooter56]

knguyen,
Reloader 15 is a tad slower than VARGET and will be more intolerant to temperature changes. Don't guess on the loads ! If you do not not have a good up to date reloading manual please get one. Or check the Alliant and HODGDON websites for reloading information. Always start at the minimum load and work up! If you have any other questions please feel free to contact us.
Take care,
Phil Hoham
Berger Bullet Tech