N160 for 6.5 Creed

[treillw]

Any feedback on using N160 for the 6.5 Creed? 147 ELDmatch is the bullet of choice.

I was able to round up 16 pounds of N160. Hoping to use it for this application. Might try to sell/trade it before popping the top if it's not ideal.

What do you think I can get for velocity? 26" Kreiger

Thanks!

 

[358WCF]

I dunno about ideal, but I've tried N160 with 140s. I'm still getting a feel for a new to me powder. It's certainly slower than 4350, but less bulky. At 43gr there's still plenty room in the case. VV data is all over the place with different 140gr bullets, but 42gr is about their max in Lapua brass. So far in Hornady brass with red box WMGLRs I've gotten to 43gr @2635fps with no ill effect, some decent groups for the (22" sporter) rifle, & will continue upward a little further next range trip.

There is N160 data in Hornady #11 for the 147s & 153s... 34.6gr=2300fps for a start load & 43.8gr=2700fps for their max with Hornady brass/Fed.210s in a 24" barrel. With 2" more barrel you should beat these speeds easily. I dont think it will be quite like RL26, but try it. You might like it.

 

[Twdmar]

I think n160 may be just a tad slow for 6.5. It's better suited to the 6 creed. It's a good powder and probably will be accurate but I would imagine with the 147 you won't get stellar velocity. The 147 is a pretty long bullet and unless you are single loading, I think that will hold you back too.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

N160 -It's my go-to in 243, so should be spot on for any weight in 6 Creed. N560 should boogie in the 6.5 Creed as would N150- but I have never seen anyone actually shoot it ( Vihtavouri powders are expensive down here - and hard to find, I just buy any I come across)

 

[Monday shooter40]

I've been playing with the 147eld in 2 of my 6.5cm barrels. I bought several thousand. I've found across several powders that the bullet likes to jump. I've had great success @ 2.175 CBTO ( 2 different rifles, barrel profiles) stuffing the bullet down in the case that far made me cringe at first, but it likes it. In my barrels its jumping about.060-.070. When I tried to run it closer to the lands it was giving me flyers. I've even been using IMR4955 which is closer to that N160 burn speed. SD isn't as great as H4350 or RL16 can be, but its not terrible.

 

[wagonman]

I run n-160 in a 30in 260ai good speed great accuracy, n160 in 6.5 creed would be velocity wise close to the fabled h- 4831 Carolina n160 burn speed is between h4350 and h 4831

 

[treillw]

I run n-160 in a 30in 260ai good speed great accuracy, n160 in 6.5 creed would be velocity wise close to the fabled h- 4831 Carolina n160 burn speed is between h4350 and h 4831

What is the fabled 4831? Haha

Sounds promising...

 

[wagonman]

What is the fabled 4831? Haha

Sounds promising...

the secret Carolina load 44.3 gr h 4831sc and 140 gr bullet runs about 2650 run the search tab up top right corner of screen my brother tried it was very accurate but to slow for his liking

 

[Leeman]

Any feedback on using N160 for the 6.5 Creed? 147 ELDmatch is the bullet of choice.

I was able to round up 16 pounds of N160. Hoping to use it for this application. Might try to sell/trade it before popping the top if it's not ideal.

What do you think I can get for velocity? 26" Kreiger

Thanks!

I used both N160 and N550 with that bullet in the 6.5cm. You would need a long throat as someone else has mentioned the length of the bullet. My OAL was around 2.990" and with a 30" barrel speeds were approaching 2850fps with N160 and 2900fps with N550. That was with small primer Lapua brass. Barrel didn't seem to want to shoot with a couple of 140 class bullets so I got a box of the Hornady 147 to try and they shot great but then took a risk in getting the throat moved forward to suit their length, otherwise speeds would have been lower with N160 at least due to lack of case capacity. N550 with it's higher energy content and smaller kernels may still have worked with the short throat.

 

[Chubbs]

Can't help with ELD,s but my 24" Tikka shoots 139 scenars at 2666 fps with 42.1 grns of N160.

 

[treillw]

I used both N160 and N550 with that bullet in the 6.5cm. You would need a long throat as someone else has mentioned the length of the bullet. My OAL was around 2.990" and with a 30" barrel speeds were approaching 2850fps with N160 and 2900fps with N550. That was with small primer Lapua brass. Barrel didn't seem to want to shoot with a couple of 140 class bullets so I got a box of the Hornady 147 to try and they shot great but then took a risk in getting the throat moved forward to suit their length, otherwise speeds would have been lower with N160 at least due to lack of case capacity. N550 with it's higher energy content and smaller kernels may still have worked with the short throat.

My current pet load is 37 grains of varget with a COAL of 2.800" at about 2740 fps

I think I hit the lands at 2.880" COAL, if I'm reading my chicken scratch from years ago correctly.

Sounds like I should be able to get back into that realm with the n160, don't ya think?

This is a trainer rifle. Don't really need it to be a racecar and would probably prefer barrel life.

If I use it for hunting and want max performance, I could work up a different load with h4350 or something for more horsepower I guess.

 

[Leeman]

I'd be surprised if you couldn't match that speed with N160 but may depend on the brass you are considering using as well and whether you hit pressure signs although if you can hit that with Varget should be doable with a slower burning powder. You've nothing to lose anyway if you have the powder, worth opening one container at least, if it doesn't work as you say, just move it on.

 

[ebb]

I run a bigger case and a longer barrel than you mentioned, but a 6.5 just the same. I've been using N165 for many years and i see no downside. It is clean and low temp, right next to H1000 on the flame temp but able to produce higher vel. for me cause i can't get enough H1000 in the case.

 

[marchx]

I would encourage you to look at N555. Last week I was shooting hybrids+N555 achieving solid .3 for 5-shot groups at 100m. It seems temperature stable and delivers decent speed.

 

[treillw]

Here are the results of my testing. Think I'm hitting max case capacity before pressure.

Do you think 44 grains is safe to shoot, or should I bump it down a hair to be safer?

There are no pressure signs at 44 grains, but I cant really go higher due to max case capacity to find the limit, so I don't know if I'm on the bubble of max pressure and a variable could push me over in certain circumstances.

Thanks!

 

[FeMan]

I run N160 in my 284 and it does well. It is so bulky I think you may run out of case capacity before you reach pressure in the 6.5 CM. Quickload predicts that max velocity (at pressure) will be around 2790. That is a rough guide though and not an absolute. I would say you are close to max though at the upper end. You say you dont show pressure, which is of course the real key.

 

[Laurie]

I run N160 in my 284 and it does well. It is so bulky I think you may run out of case capacity before you reach pressure. Quickload predicts that max velocity (at pressure) will be around 2790. That is a rough guide though and not an absolute. I would say you are close to max though at the upper end. You say you dont show pressure, which is of course the real key.

Believe me, you can easily overload the 284 with N160, at least with heavier (175/180gn) bullets. Secondly, the N160 Ba default value in QuickLOAD can be way out, really far out depending on which version of the program you have and/or whether you've bought the program upgrades. Before it was amended a year or two ago, the program's default settings made it much slower burning than is the case. The current v.3.9 with the amended setting gives very different results from earlier versions. I stopped using QL for this powder many years ago with my previous v.3.6. (This issue applies to several other Viht grades and obviously originates in the company's use and interpretation of its closed bomb and other tests. It also applies to printed / online powder 'quickness' charts where it and some others are shown as overly slow burning.)

Some UK F-Class 284 users use N160 very successfully, but at least half of us prefer the next step slower burning N165 which also has less energy than N160. With a moderately compressed charge N165 will push a 180 out of a 30-inch barrel at up to 2,850 fps. I would have said that it is difficult to overload N165 in this combination in a properly throated barrel, but I've seen it done.

 

[FeMan]

Laurie,

I went back and read my post. Poor wording. I meant the comment to apply to the 6.5 CM and not the 284.

I have only been shooting my 284 with N160 in cold weather (40 t 45 degrees). In those conditions, I trued the Ba out to around 0.4930 for my powder lot at 45 degrees. That trranslates to around 0.50+ at 70 degrees, compared to the 0.4660 listed in my version of QL (v3.9).

Anyway, thanks for your comment. You are always a wealth of great information!

 

[Laurie]

I meant the comment to apply to the 6.5 CM and not the 284.

I'd agree with that in respect to the Creedmoor. In the limited amount of playing I did with this cartridge with 139-142gn bullets, and all with LR primed brass as my time with the cartridge preceded the SP versions, I came to believe that N150 and N160 bracketed the ideal powder characteristics for this combination. Neither is ideal and some barrels work very well with one, but not the other. (Some don't like either apparently.) I'm sure that's why Viht introduced N555 and its claim that this is the ultimate 6.5CM powder.

N555 is an interesting powder, apparently a tad 'faster burning' than N160, but much 'slower' than N150/550. Despite its 'high-energy' status, it actually has a lower 'combined heat of explosion' than some N100 series and is way below what its other N500 stablemates are rated at. If QL v.3.9 is to be believed, it produces given MVs at lower PMax values than most equivalents too. Incidentally, QL (yet again) rates it as considerably slower burning than actual results on the range suggest. N555 may turn out to be a good 4350 alternative in many cartridges. See my 7mm-08 test results here:

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=3683

 

[D-4297]

Here are the results of my testing. Think I'm hitting max case capacity before pressure.

Do you think 44 grains is safe to shoot, or should I bump it down a hair to be safer?

There are no pressure signs at 44 grains, but I cant really go higher due to max case capacity to find the limit, so I don't know if I'm on the bubble of max pressure and a variable could push me over in certain circumstances.

Thanks!

Far from being a expert on this subject , but I think I'd be real nervous about pulling the trigger on that load at 75 or 80 degrees . Just sayin .