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My problem or the load?

Pareto

Silver $$ Contributor
One issue I'm concerned with: I'm more familiar with rimfire at 50 yards where I can get on occasion super tight groups under 0.1". But in center fire, I know my 6br shoots better for me than my 223 AI, but in both cases there are times when my 3x or 5x group splits into 2 in 1 and then a flyer. I have been able to get 3s with regularity in the 6br with a steady sprinkle of 2s, while it's more like 3s to 5s with the AI but only occasionally 2s.

Because my eyes aren't perfect (I have a bad combination of astigmatism and floaters) plus I'm not sure if I have been able to setup the gun properly for recoil I'm never sure if it's me. Also, a 50x scope doesn't make the centerfire target as easy to see at 100 as a 40x at 50 yards, of course.

Very often I'll feel that if I go really slowly and totally concentrate on the shots I can get 2s for sure. But the effort and concentration seem super hard for me to keep up with regularity. The equivalent problem for me in rimfire is that I'll almost always blow a couple of shots on the IR 50/50. I've only gotten one 250 indoors and mostly 248s or 249s after a year of shooting on my own for practice indoors.

I'll keep experimenting with loads, but I just wonder if I'm close to the limit of what I'm capable of.
 
It's often difficult to separate the two without help. Having someone watch you can oftentimes reveals a flaw by watching the recoil or differences in setup. It can often be forgetting to hold your breath in the same way or leaning more on the bench. It can also be too much magnification with a 50x at 100 yds. You end up chasing the dot around the bull. This is especially true if the dot is much smaller than the aiming point.

Having someone you know is a good shooter with your type of rifle can help sort out ammunition related problems.
 
When I was in my prime shooting NRA Precision Pistol, I would have an occasional poor performance match. In the final analysis, shooting is an athletic endeavor subject to the biorhythm of our bodies and minds. Of course, I don't have enough data and information regarding your situation, but all shooters experience these biorhythm cycles to some degree that affect performance.

There are days at the range, when I am in the zone, I can shoot really well. Then there are days, when I can feel that it isn't going to go well. I try to push through it and sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. Taking a break from the sequence and regrouping mental sometimes helps. Sometimes, no matter what I try, it just isn't going to happen on that day.

With regards to equipment, all equipment is going to have some built in dispersion. When you are shooting in the range of the 2 to 5's, it takes exceptional equipment and shooter skill to shoot at that level repetitively. Then there are the environmental effects, air density changes, wind, and mirage.

I would never advise to not try to keep improving but at some point, the equipment and shooter reaches the limit of performance.
 
If your 100 yard shooting is outdoors the wind could be messing with you when you're trying to shoot tiny groups. How many shots make up one of your groups?
 
Optically if you can shoot .2 moa with 50y rimfire you should be able to aim similar moa at 100y.

Of course getting the gun to perform like that is another challenge. Many possibilities to pursue but I agree to let someone else run the rifle as a quick and easy divide and conquer between shooter and equipment.

David
 
If you shoot 250s, and occasional 249s and 248s, you should be answering rimfire questions not asking them.

As for your centerfire 6BR shooting, there is nothing wrong with your shooting if you can shoot into the 3s and 2s. The 223 isn't as easy as the 6BR, so it isn't just you.

To take this any farther, you would want to visit with a BR match and size yourself up against the others.

Go visit a club match and see what your perspective is on your own shooting after you see a typical match. This will tell you what state of the art looks like, and if you and your shooting compare. I think you will find it interesting and you may even find you want to jump into the game. YMMV
 
A few weeks ago, I went to a buddy's place to dial in some new loads and I took along a rifle I hadn't shot in probably five years, which carries a Nightforce scope with extra fine cross hairs. During the past five years, my eyesight went from no glasses required to needing reading glasses, as well as distance glasses. I found my cross hairs barely visible to me and blurry. I re-focused the eyepiece to my eye, and they became sharp, but I still had a difficult time seeing the contrast between the cross hairs and the black of the target. They just kind of blended in. It was a huge wake-up call to how much I have changed and how that would affect my equipment choices. So now, I'm planning on pulling that scope and replacing with a .125 MOA target dot scope which I can still see well enough.

So, I'd think that if you are having problems like I am seeing as well as you would like - it might be a good idea to re-think your scope. Having to strain your eyes or spend extra time trying to acquire a good sight picture allows condition changes to further wreak havoc on your grouping or score. Simply getting slowed down will definitely hurt your score -whether you are a run-n-gun guy or a picker.

Edited to correct the MOA on the scope dot I am using.....
 
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Regarding that .223 Ackley, as Region Rat mentioned- it is typically not as easy to get those high scores as with a 6BR. Doesn't mean you can't - it is just typically more difficult when both rigs are shooting well. I may be preaching to the choir - but those .223's (and other cases of similar or smaller size) benefit considerably more from meticulous case prep, proper neck tension and bullet seating depth than the typical 6BR. Also, a LOT of .223's tend to shoot the most accurately at slower speeds, whereby the 6BR's tend to like faster speeds on the "ladder". If you want to try to wring the most out of the Ackley, purely from an accuracy standpoint, I'd turn your necks if not already doing so. I'd also check your primer flash holes if not using Lapua brass and you may find them to be in need of a light reaming. I get improved SD's on .223 brass doing this more so than other calibers which are larger. I don't know what it is about .223 brass in general, but many brands leave a lot to be desired there and improvement can often be had. In some lots of Lapua, I've also found this to be true to the point I just ream them all now if it is for paper shooting. I don't see that much improvement doing so on most other calibers. Try dialing your velocity back, performing a "reverse" ladder, dropping powder 2/10th grain until you take it all the way down to what you might consider a starting load. Raw accuracy trumps velocity (to me, anyway) for target shooting, and you might be surprised at the improvement by slowing it down. I have often found the SD's to improve and groups tighten up considerably. While I like to run my .223's on the "warmer side" in general, I've got a few barrels that want them slow, one so slow, I'm running a 52 grain bullet and the necks are carbon sooted and the gun is filthy after a lot of shooting - but it puts them in one small, ragged hole. I tried ten powders in that particular rifle and nothing else worked as well, regardless of whether running hot/cold, etc..
 
In my experience, when looking for the very best groups you are capable of, the crosshairs or dot need to be matched very closely to your target. Personally I like a small dot matched to a dot style target of the correct diameter. As in, a dot within a dot. Hopefully that makes sense. Good shooting!
Paul
 
searcher said:
A few weeks ago, I went to a buddy's place to dial in some new loads and I took along a rifle I hadn't shot in probably five years, which carries a Nightforce scope with extra fine cross hairs. During the past five years, my eyesight went from no glasses required to needing reading glasses, as well as distance glasses. I found my cross hairs barely visible to me and blurry. I re-focused the eyepiece to my eye, and they became sharp, but I still had a difficult time seeing the contrast between the cross hairs and the black of the target. They just kind of blended in. It was a huge wake-up call to how much I have changed and how that would affect my equipment choices. So now, I'm planning on pulling that scope and replacing with a 1 MOA target dot scope which I can still see well enough.

So, I'd think that if you are having problems like I am seeing as well as you would like - it might be a good idea to re-think your scope. Having to strain your eyes or spend extra time trying to acquire a good sight picture allows condition changes to further wreak havoc on your grouping or score. Simply getting slowed down will definitely hurt your score -whether you are a run-n-gun guy or a picker.
Click to expand...
Where are you finding a1 moa target dot?
 
Thank you for all the helpful comments and suggestions. I'll try harder to find a local shooter who can help me.
 
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