My First Attempt at Ladder Load Development

[Kurt Blasser]

Need some recommendations regarding load developement. This is my first attempt at a ladder. The rifle is a Kelbly FTR with 30 " Krieger barrel, 1-10 twist, shooting Lapua brass, two ladders with LR primers and one ladder with Palma brass. Varget powder, Berger 200.20X bullets. First ladder at 500 yards, the next two at 300. First ladder there was a lot of mirage and aiming point might have been difficult to hold. Second two at 300 with a more defined aiming point. I had previously developed a Cortina load at 44 grains of Varget seated -.030 from the lands. Shot so-so. Thought I'd try the ladder technique. These were shot -.020 which was another seating depth that shot well on the Cortina test. Hope it comes out rotated right

 

[Mulligan]

I would focus on the node identified by shots 3 and 4 in the 300 yard tests. 43.9 gr and retest for vertical. If that looks good, on a breezy day test it for wind side by side with 43.8 and 44.0 and see which give the most forgive in the wind without sacrificing vertical.
CW

 

[abersfelderami]

43.9 grs
43.4 +/-.1 gr
Start hard jam minus .010"
.010" in the lands
.005-.010-.015 jump
compare matrix style at 200 yards.

 

[Kurt Blasser]

43.9 grs
43.4 +/-.1 gr
Start hard jam minus .010"
.010" in the lands
.005-.010-.015 jump
compare matrix style at 200 yards.

Thanks!

 

[Kurt Blasser]

Need some recommendations regarding load developement. This is my first attempt at a ladder. The rifle is a Kelbly FTR with 30 " Krieger barrel, 1-10 twist, shooting Lapua brass, two ladders with LR primers and one ladder with Palma brass. Varget powder, Berger 200.20X bullets. First ladder at 500 yards, the next two at 300. First ladder there was a lot of mirage and aiming point might have been difficult to hold. Second two at 300 with a more defined aiming point. I had previously developed a Cortina load at 44 grains of Varget seated -.030 from the lands. Shot so-so. Thought I'd try the ladder technique. These were shot -.020 which was another seating depth that shot well on the Cortina test. Hope it comes out rotated right

Would anyone investigate further the velocity flat spots at 44.6-44.8 on the first two velocity curves and 44.2-44.6 on the third? On the ladder the first two are relatively same vertical. Or, are these in the too hot range? All help welcome!

 

[Jdne5b]

I know a lot of guys shooing the 2700-2720 area. Most are using H4895 for slightly lower pressure than Varget. Depending on your freebore, Varget @ 2700 will probably be pretty hard on brass, even Palma brass. If you can get it to repeat, and shoot a full string while controlling recoil, I don't see any downside to the upper node.

 

[seymour fish]

Need some recommendations regarding load developement. This is my first attempt at a ladder. The rifle is a Kelbly FTR with 30 " Krieger barrel, 1-10 twist, shooting Lapua brass, two ladders with LR primers and one ladder with Palma brass. Varget powder, Berger 200.20X bullets. First ladder at 500 yards, the next two at 300. First ladder there was a lot of mirage and aiming point might have been difficult to hold. Second two at 300 with a more defined aiming point. I had previously developed a Cortina load at 44 grains of Varget seated -.030 from the lands. Shot so-so. Thought I'd try the ladder technique. These were shot -.020 which was another seating depth that shot well on the Cortina test. Hope it comes out rotated right

Your 500 yd test #9-10, if in fact no pressure and primer pockets holding up, might lead to speculation that creeping up another increment or two might be revealing. Overall, there is no Wide Node anywhere, which suggested a change in powder is warranted. H 4895, as mentioned, would be an excellent choice. If you are satisfied you have arrived at best seating depth, don’t change it

 

[seymour fish]

Your 500 yd test #9-10, if in fact no pressure and primer pockets holding up, might lead to speculation that creeping up another increment or two might be revealing. Overall, there is no Wide Node anywhere, which suggested a change in powder is warranted. H 4895, as mentioned, would be an excellent choice. If you are satisfied you have arrived at best seating depth, don’t change it

As a quick scan of powders, anything with a rough node width of less than a full grain of powder is a bust

 

[Kurt Blasser]

bump

 

[Kurt Blasser]

bump

Second Day of Load development. Nice morning, overcast ,75, minimal wind, no mirage. Tried the Lapua LRP Varget, 200.20X -.020 combination again, and added Lapua Brass LRP, H4895, 200.20X, -.020. The first ladder was shot at 300 yds, but didn't show much separation, so moved to 500 yds for the H4895 ladder. Each ladder seemed to have one outlier with out of sequence high velocity. ?? Started to see flattening of the primer with the upper H4895 and the velocity got up there pretty good and recoil harder. Primers otherwise ok with both loads. My recollection in reading here was that the H4895 might give the same velocities at a slightly lower grain level than the Varget. Correct? I also remember reading that a good velocity node for the 200.20X in 30" barrel 1-10 twist is in the 2650 to 2680 range. Correct? Is that enough velocity for 600-1000?
Looking at the paper in the H4895 the 6,7,8 level looks good. If I forget the high velocity for 6 it looks like a good area to me. The Varget target somewhat compressed due to the 300 yds but 4,5,6,7,8 pretty level. Suggestions please!

 

[Kurt Blasser]

Thanks! Would you agree that my recollections to the questions in the last message are correct?

 

[Kurt Blasser]

Sure, and anyone else that would comment. Any direction is welcome!

 

[kyreloader]

44.4g Varget, 43.7g of H4895.

Shoot a seating depth test with both and see which wins.

 

[jsthntn247]

Gun looks like a hammer. 2700+ node with Palma brass and Varget , 2650-2660 with Lrp brass and Varget , and 2680 with 4895

 

[Kurt Blasser]

Allow me to ask you a question ,
How do you interpret this ladder test?
J

Well, I like shots 1-2, then 6-7, 8-9-10, and 14-15. Looks like you picked the middle of these groups with the load data on the left. I think I'd look at that area 6-7 and 8-9-10. That would be pretty wide I would think. Any velocity data?

 

[Kurt Blasser]

So, today I tried 5 shots of H4895 43.6, 43.7, 43.8, 43.9 and 44. I'm a little concerned, especially with the above comments regarding velocities over 2700. See the targets and velocities below. The 43.7 target, I think I pulled a bit on the shot # 3. If we toss that one out, I have a vertical MOA of .12. I think I'll do a seating test on the H4895 43.7. Anybody want to make me feel better about velocities greater than 2700?

 

[Kurt Blasser]

So, today I tried 5 shots of H4895 43.6, 43.7, 43.8, 43.9 and 44. I'm a little concerned, especially with the above comments regarding velocities over 2700. See the targets and velocities below. The 43.7 target, I think I pulled a bit on the shot # 3. If we toss that one out, I have a vertical MOA of .12. I think I'll do a seating test on the H4895 43.7. Anybody want to make me feel better about velocities greater than 2700?

But the 44.0 is awful appealing!

 

[abersfelderami]

Second Day of Load development. Nice morning, overcast ,75, minimal wind, no mirage. Tried the Lapua LRP Varget, 200.20X -.020 combination again, and added Lapua Brass LRP, H4895, 200.20X, -.020. The first ladder was shot at 300 yds, but didn't show much separation, so moved to 500 yds for the H4895 ladder. Each ladder seemed to have one outlier with out of sequence high velocity. ?? Started to see flattening of the primer with the upper H4895 and the velocity got up there pretty good and recoil harder. Primers otherwise ok with both loads. My recollection in reading here was that the H4895 might give the same velocities at a slightly lower grain level than the Varget. Correct? I also remember reading that a good velocity node for the 200.20X in 30" barrel 1-10 twist is in the 2650 to 2680 range. Correct? Is that enough velocity for 600-1000?
Looking at the paper in the H4895 the 6,7,8 level looks good. If I forget the high velocity for 6 it looks like a good area to me. The Varget target somewhat compressed due to the 300 yds but 4,5,6,7,8 pretty level. Suggestions please!

Varget:
.......
43.6gr
43.9gr
44.3

H4895:
.......
43.7gr
43.8gr
43.9gr
........
........
Seating depth?

 

[Kurt Blasser]

Varget:
.......
43.6gr
43.9gr
44.3

H4895:
.......
43.7gr
43.8gr
43.9gr
........
........
Seating depth?

-.020 off the lands. Seating test next.

 

[Had2muchofForums]

Well, I didn't really look at the H4895 pics, but for Varget you have a couple small windows. Between 44.6 and 45.2 your average velocity only increased 19 ft/sec. Specifically between 44.8 and 45.2 the avg velocity only had a 9 ft/sec extreme spread. If it were me, and pressure was ok, I would load 45.1 grains and perform a seating depth test from touching the lands to about .015" off the lands in .002 or .003" increments. Look either for where the groups close up or for where a cluster of groups all hit to about the same POI.

Sorry, didn't look at the H4895