MXX-123 Test Results Page

[Forum Boss]

We've built a page with test results of Denver Instrument's MXX-123 scale, with input from James Phillips, Jerry Tierney, Danny Reever and Flatlander.

Bottom line, this thing rocks. James measured 30 charges with his high-end lab scale then re-weighed them on the MXX-123. It was within +/- .01 grain every time. Then he repeated the test for 30 charges after two hours, 30 after 4 hours, and 30 after 24 hours. A couple times it showed .03 grains high, but that's still less than two kernels of Varget!

Jerry tested the MXX-123 vs. a 10-10 Balance beam, and well, that wasn't even a fair contest. It was clear the best the balance beam could do was about +/- .1 grain.

Link to review: http://www.6mmbr.com/mxx123test.html

We'll be adding some more photos as soon as James can get them to me, but all the data is there.

 

[jtm]

is dever mxx123 the same as acculab vic123 picture looks the same but without hinged cover

 

[memilanuk]

Interesting. I've gone to some length to get my AccuLab stabilized... solid bench, granite surface plate, UPS w/ filtered power, the 'Very Unstable' settings... all the usual tricks, plus spent a couple hours on the phone w/ the engineer who designed the blasted thing to make sure I was doing what I should. It still drifts like crazy if you put anything other than... nothing on it. Put a charge on it, come back an hour later... better expect it to be any where from 0.2 to 3 full grains off. Lately it's been getting really wiggy about even holding a zero sitting still w/ nothing on it. Only thing that's changed is the RCBS Chargemaster sitting next to it. The engineer said that it was basically a cheap unit,for its resolution range) and somethings,like EMI shielding) were skimped on. No kidding.

I'm about ready to call they and tell them they can have it back... I either want a functional scale or my money back.

 

[jtm]

if u leave it on all the time its heaps better ive had mene 1 1/2 MONTHS and it has stopped working it is a euro model cos im in ozzy the AC2 unit is not producing power im trying to get sartorius australia to send me a new ac unit as to claim warranty i have to send it to sinclairs bla bla bla hoping the guy in oz plays the game as the sartorius usa guy thought it was HUMOUROUS

 

[gebhardt02]

Mine wandered quite a bit as well. What I've started doing is turning it on and waiting half hour before starting to load. I also noticed that if I was loading in the evening, it wandered more as the sun was setting than if I loaded in the early afternoon 1300-1600 ish. Also make sure there isn't any AC or heat going on. But yeah, I was getting the same wandering if I stepped away for over a minute. Hope my little bit of info helps.

Geb

 

[Bob3700]

The first MXX-123 that I had definately had a problem. Drifted all the time and would not give me a repeatable reading.

I went thru the same issues with the engineers, setting the thing for unstable etc.

Finally, I insisted they replace the unit. They did with out any fuss.

Got the second unit. When I want to load, turn the scale on at least several hours before I begin. It is a stable as they come and repeatable. No problems with this scale. It will produce accurate charges without question.

RGDS
Bob

 

[6BRonwheels]

I have had a MXX-123 for about a month. It works very well for me, very repeatable readings and very little drifting. I did have problems with drift during periods of high humidity, so i try to weight charges when the humidity is below 60%. I also have rigged up a plastic file box that I cover the scales with if there are drafts in the room. I have gotten five-shot extreme spreads down to 9 fps by keeping the charges within 1/20th of a grain.

 

[BobKingsbury]

My Acculab is as worthless as yours,Just sits there and floats
not .01, but .2. my rcbs 10-10 is way better than that.
I have a small pocket size purchased from Lester Bruno,that
will scare you for accuracy.

 

[calmaxus]

I actually returned a $150 Pact scale and paid $255 for a MXX-123 after reading the "review" on 6mmbr.com. I am now thinking that I may have been a sucker for marketing hype, considering that DI is their sponsor and the "reviewer" is selling the scale. The first one I received insisted "OL" after only a few loads. A call to DI and was told that it had to be replaced. DI's customer service was very nice and responsive. They didn't give me any fuss and sent out the replacement the same day. They even emailed me a prepaid return label. My second unit was drifting like the others said. I put the included 100g,1543.24gn)check weight on the scale and it started to drift up right after a few seconds. It could drift up to 0.06 in a minute, or 0.4 grains overnight. It wouldn't return to zero after it drifted up. It would retain the drifted difference after the load have been removed. It also wouldn't retain calibration with the included check weight either. I calibrated it with the check weight reading 1543.24 grains, removed and put the weight right back and it would read 1543.18. The under-read was pretty consistent though. It would show the same under for each reweigh; of course unless I left the load on, then it would drift up again. I had repeated calibration numerous times but got the same result each time. I think it is easy to make a scale reading down to 1/100th of a grain, but it would take a lot more to make the 1/100th usable. I think that is why other manufacturers chose to show only down to 1/10th of a grain. This 1/100th grain thing on MXX-123 is nothing but a gimmick. It is just there to "justify" fetching double the price of compatible products. I can though understand DI using such gimmick to sell a overpriced product. After all, they are in business for profit, and people like me bought it. I can also understand why 6mmbr played along with them and push it; because they paid! My advise to DI is: if you have to price a product $2000 to deliver supposed function, do it than you won't see a post like this one; to 6mmbr, you can "review" just so many times before you lose all your credibilities. Don't over do it unless you change the site name soon; to fallow readers, don't pay $100 more for something with good "review". Check it out for yourself and you may only find it $10 better, or $100 sucker.

 

[308shooter]

I also have an Acculab VIC-123, when I recieved the scale I accually thought it was defective because it drifted so much. I called Acculab and sent it to them after a couple of days I recieved a call from acculab stating the scale checked out OK and it was sent back to me. Scale still drifts anywhere from .04-10gns yea, thats right 10gns. Not worth the money in my opinion. I cannot speak for the DI scale as I have never used one.

 

[Kabang]

I received my MXx123 a month or so ago and had the same/similar drifting problems. I called Denver and the engineer told me the scale had an auto zeroing routine built in. So I developed a different procedure that is working out and meeting my expectation.

1) Warm up for at least one hour in a closed off room with no heat, no extra desk lamps on, just overhead lights that are not fluorescent. Recalibrate if you have moved the unit and just before you begin to use the scale.

2) Zero the scale and immediately weigh your pan and write the value down.

3) Now place 4 or 5 grains of powder in the pan, zero the scale, and weigh. Use the difference to find an average /kernel weight.

4) Add the charge value you want to what the pan weighed.

5) Throw a charge, place it in the pan, zero the scale, and place the pan and charge on the scale. Take the value when the balance symbol appears. The longer you wait to acknowledge a value, the more likely you are to be accepting a drifted value.

About 30% of the time, the preliminary charge reads exactly what I want. 50% of the time, the value is within 1 or 2 kernels of that weight. The other 20% is a bit farther off.

6) Take the charge off the scale and if it weighed less than your goal, pour the contents into the shell case. Then take a hand trickler and measure out the number of kernels the charge was lite and pour them into the case to meet your goal. I trickle these few kernels onto a small piece of neon note paper I've folded in half and then in half perpendicular. This make me a lite duty pan for dumping them into the funnel.

7) If the charge runs over, then take some out and have the dispenser re-trickle the charge or after removing some kernels you should be lower and can hand trickle them in after the preliminary weight is known.

I use an RCBS dispenser and after pouring the lite charge in the shell case from the pan, the pan goes back on the RCBS and starts dispensing another preliminary charge while I'm topping off the lite charge.

The advantages for me in this procedure is Time savings as I'm not trying to re-weigh a topped off charge on the scale and multiple things are happening at the same time. By using a pan + charge scale reading, I can zero the scale just before weighing the combined pan + charge. This renders the drifting problem/characteristic mostly irrelevant.

 

[JRS]

I too have an Acculab VIC-123 and have had no problems whatsoever with drifting nor accuracy problems.

I also use my 18 year old Dillon Terminator which is always dead on.

 

[Forum Boss]

CalMaxus,

Yes, Denver Instrument has been an advertiser in the past, though it is not currently. We provided test results from three units actually purchased,with their own monies) by three Forum members, Jerry Tierney, James Phillips, and Danny Reever. James was selling this product at one time,but he has subsequently closed his business). Jerry and Danny have no financial interest whatsoever, and neither they, nor James, received any financial compensation for the test.

FWIW, we published test results before Denver Instrument placed an advertisement. There was absolutely NO plan to "cook" the results to favor the device. If you know James, Jerry and Danny you'll realize they gave it their best efforts, and were truly independent and unbiased.

I run this site and I don't sell scales, or products of any kind for that matter. We did the test to find out if the MXX-123 worked well, period. No one "sponsored" or underwrote the testing.

Proper Placement and Leveling is Critical
I can say this much. Just last night I spent an hour working with an Acculab 123 scale. Its owner said it wasn't working. First, he had it on a plastic folding table that was bowed in the middle. It was impossible to level it on that surface. Second, the scale was directly in line with a large air fan. Third, the device was placed immediately next to a computer network wireless router and other electrical devices.

When we moved the scale, placed it on a slab of granite on a flat bench surface, isolated it from breezes and electrical interference, carefully leveled it front to rear and side to side, and then calibrated it -- guess what, the scale worked perfectly. Waving your hand quickly over the pan could cause an air current that would cause the hundredths of a grain units to "flicker". But if you did not induce a breeze, it was stable and repeatable.

And this was a unit the owner had decided was "junk".

All manufacturers will produce a bad product now and then. That goes for the DI MXX-123 and its clone Acculab unit. But I will say this--I think many of the problems some folks have observed can be traced to poor leveling and improper placement.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with your scale. But I can assure you that the tests written up for this site at http://www.6mmbr.com/mxx123test.html, were not influenced one way or the other by Denver Instrument. As noted, we provided test results done with three different scales, by three different testers. The data presented speaks for itself--the numbers are what they are.

It is worth noting that James specifically included "long-term" tests to see if there was drift after 2 hours, 4 hours, and 24 hours. If James was trying to present only the most favorable data, he never would have taken the time to check for drift over extended time intervals.

Jerry also very candidly reported his observations of some zero drift: "Report from Jerry Tierney:
First, let me make some general observations about the MXX-123. There were several tenths of zero drift in the first hours of “burn in”--12 hours of "power-on" time before I calibrated and started measuring. I observed very small zero drifts while measuring--about 0.06 grains--but that doesn't seem to affect the reading by that much. I have NOT seen any effects on measurement caused by lights, telephones or ambient temperatures,50 to 75 degrees). Now on to the tests..."

 

[rhino]

Warm up a few hours and throw the unit on a line sensor.

RHINOUT!

 

[hulk]

I do not have this scale but the one I use MUST have a line conditioner/AVR to work properly. Do it right or do it twice.

 

[Bugs]

After having sold balances (Denver, Mettler, Sartorius and Ohaus) into the laboratory and industrial market for over 30 years, here are a few observations. . . . . The Denver MXX 123 is a pretty good tool at a reasonable price but it is a strain gauge balance rather than an electromagnetic force restoration unit. It is advertised to have a readability of a milligram but that is really right at the edge of what this kind of balance is capable of. The linearity of the unit is only to the nearest 3 milligrams. I have and use several Denver Summit series balances and they are as good or better than anything else available today. I also use an MXX123 and, even with it's limitations, it sure beats the heck out of what we had to use even just a few years ago. I have also been dealing directly with Denver Instruments for the above mentioned 30 years (before, they were called "Ainsworth") and have always had excellent results on service issues. I think they are a first rate company.

 

[audredger]

All very intresting, I have a RCBS partner and a MyWeight Scale, Both drift to beat the band. The most intresting was that the 10-10 balance is not accurate at all!

I pulled out an old ,30-50 years old, Voland & Sons analytic lab balance and started to use it. Weighed charges on the 10-10 then on the Voland. 10=10's markings were off and would vary as much as .2 grains. No wonder my ES's are big.

The Voland takes more time to use but, by the Gods, I know its right!!!

My faith in scales, both mechanical and electronic, has been shaken.

 

[bluestarhp]

I have suffered with the same drifting issues,etc. regarding the Denver MX 123 scale and finally gave up in disgust!

The RCBS Chargemaster is the solution to ALL issues regarding the weighing of charges, PERIOD. It simply works!

 

[gemmellsc]

I purchased the MXX-123 this past year, but haven't played with it that much. After reading this string of messages I started thinking that I had made a bad purchase. So, I pulled it out of the box last night around 8, read the directions, set it up, and took some measurements. The only modifictions that I made in the setup was to change the units to grains, and parameter 1.1.2 (stable conditions) to 1.1.3 (unstable conditions). The unit is plugged into a wall outlet with a single 40W lamp (on during the measurements). This circuit is not isolated or shielded in any way. The unit is sitting on a night stand (heavy wood) in a vaulted ceiling room, carpet flooring, and has been leveled by adjusting all the feet in first and then lowering as needed to insure no wobble.

I let the unit warm up for exactly one hour. During that hour the readout went from 0.00 gns up to 1.62 gns. At the end of the hour I pressed the zero button to get back to 0.00 gns.

Here are the results:
1.) I weighed a Berger 80gr High BC FB. It weighed 80.08 gns. It took about 3 seconds for the scale to settle, and would sometimes flicker between 80.08 and 80.10 gns.

2.) I removed the bullet, and the scale went back to 0.00 gns.

3.) I let the scale sit for about 30 minutes and it had floated to 0.04 gns.

4.) I pressed zero again, and it went back to 0.00 gns.

5.) I repeated steps 1 and 2 approximately 10 times over the next hour. I would wait a few minutes and repeat. Each time the bullet read 80.08-80.12 gns. I noticed that it never went below the 80.08 gn mark.

6.) Right before going to bed I checked it again, and the scale read 0.02 gns. This was about 2hrs time from the first reading. I pressed zero again, and covered the unit with a tupperware container. *Unit was left alone all night.

7. 9 1/2 hours later. I remove the tupperware container carefully, and the unit settled dead on 0.00 gns.

8. I weighed the same bullet, and it pops up 80.08, but flickers to 80.10 gns if left on for more than a couple of seconds.

9. *** I would like to make one note here. The unit readout displays as 0.00 gns, but it does have an internal rounding feature and will only read in 0.02 gn increments. I think some of the flickering between 80.08 and 80.10 is probably normal due to the true weight being close to the middle and then stack on any interference be it electrical, breeze, or vibration.

10. I tried turning the 40W light off and on, and it didn't seem to make any difference. I cut off/on my 52" tv located on the same circuit, and it didn't seem to matter.

My conclusions:

1.) I feel that under my conditions I would trust the unit to about 0.04 gns accuracy after about a 3 hr warm up, and if left plugged in all the time or after an overnight warm up maybe 0.04 gns or less.

2.) My current scale is an RCBS 5-0-5, and is marked in 0.1 gn increments. I would still say that even with the flickers and such this unit is a solid 2 times more accurate, and definately way faster.

3.) I am a little dissappointed that it doesn't read accurately down to 0.00 gns as the displayed leads me to believe, but given the speed and other features (counting, percentage, etc...) I feel like it's still a good investment.

4.) I don't plan on throwing away my 5-0-5 any time soon. I still use this for load development at the range.

I plan on leaving the unit on throughout the day to see if it moves with daily appliance use, and will report back again. Another note: Considering the unit only draws 1W of power I don't see a big deal with leaving it on for extended periods to insure that it's warmed up. I don't like having to wait on anything, but maybe cutting the unit on the night before would be the way to go?

All my testing is for my own curiousity, and not to prove any person on this site right or wrong. Hopefully it will help someone as many have helped me here.

Take Care,
Bill

 

[clint27]

I bought one of these units and after trying other units this one has fed me the most reliable data considering my RCBS and DPS III were more money.
The warm up is important.!
I also have found that a still room (Turn the air con off) with a proper level and solid surface has bettered my results ( The manufacturer suggests this )
I also zero after each weigh and read the result as it arrives. ie. dont leave powder in pan and watch it drift. I reweigh as i trickle up to check. As proof my loads are only showing a 8fps velocity spread which in my world is awesome... Take this number into account with me having the cheap and cheerful gear for the data collection. And I dont have the experience that some of the members here have but I have had up to 70fps spreads prior to using this machine.
Their service is outstanding and I cant believe I got the machine as cheap as I did for what it does.
So thanks Denver for the good gear and for considerably reducing my group size...