MTAP (Meplat Trimming and Pointing)

[Bryan Blake]

CNC bullet trimming and pointing...

Video showing the process:

When we designed the IDOD/AUTODOD, we had always envisioned a machining center, not just a neck turning machine...
A project I have wanted to get going for awhile is the MTAP. Meplat, Trimming and Pointing. Bullet pointing with a swaging process like has been done for a long time and can have many issues. Jacket distortion is the biggest. BC consistency is another issue. So in the past we have tried to mitigate this by trimming all of the projectiles based on the ogive as a datum. Then we would sort by overall length. Then we would setup the swaging process to a given length and then adjust the die for each other length in batches of a .001". The end problem with this, is the swaging process never guaranteed BC consistency.
The MTAP process does three main things:
OAL of the projectiles is the same as we are datuming off of the base of the projectile.
BC is more consistent as OAL and meplat angles and diameters are the same
Zero bullet jacket to lead core distortion
In my opinion machining instead of swaging is a much more consistent result with no chance of bullet distortion.
I can have any angle, radi, etc on my cutting inserts to give whatever machined shape we desire on any given projectile, it is a fully modular system. There are about 500 IDOD/AUTODOD machines in the world and those users can get the MTAP kit and easily turn their neck turning machine into a bullet machining machine.


Shown here are photos of a 180 hybrid 7mm right out of the box, compared to a bullet that has been ran with the MTAP process.

 

[DocBII]

Bryan,

Three points determine the curve, so you need to determine how consistent the OGL is before meplat trimming. Second, after trimming point the bullet. Do it through a bunch of small steps like shown, or with a more conventional pointer. After that, either rinse and repeat if your prefer, or just measure for bullet/cartridge OAL.

Good luck,
DocBII

 

[Bryan Blake]

Bryan,

Three points determine the curve, so you need to determine how consistent the OGL is before meplat trimming. Second, after trimming point the bullet. Do it through a bunch of small steps like shown, or with a more conventional pointer. After that, either rinse and repeat if your prefer, or just measure for bullet/cartridge OAL.

Good luck,
DocBII

Or, run it in the MTAP system once, and the bullet comes out to the exact same length as all of the other bullets that have been ran through the MTAP system, and the points are the same and no jacket deformation.

At least this is my theory I have been testing...

 

[DocBII]

Bryan,

Consistency of the ogive as well as the consistency of the length, and of the meplat measurements. Please show us either measurements, results or pictures of more than one sample. I hold OGL to +/- 0.002 with the same for BOL. Your picture shows a different meplat shape from standard, please elaborate on the functionality.

Thanks,
DocBII

 

[rwj]

Your innovative thinking is admirable!

 

[Bryan Blake]

 

[Bryan Blake]

Your innovative thinking is admirable!

Thanks although not always a good thing!

 

[Mark611]

That is different for sure!

 

[Chaotik]

Bryan,
Have you tested the consistency of the drag curves on these bullets?
Thanks!

 

[paulT]

Could you give examples of BC Increases with your pointing system with say Berger
30 cal 200.20x bullet verses typical Bc Increases with conventional bullet pointing/tipping dies.

 

[Bryan Blake]

MTAP 1000 yard testing.

Lengthy post, lots of data.

In short, the MTAP system cuts and forms the point and tip on a copper jacketed lead core bullet. The process creates all bullets, when taken out of the box to the same length, same point and theoretically the same BC with an increased BC.

Berger 180 7mm hybrids were used in testing.

The testing parameters:

7 FCP cartridge with 57 grains of VV N555, fed 210 primers with 180 hybrids.

Two different rifles used in testing. One runs slower than the other and I intentionally chose these two to test with, to get a data sample that used slightly different velocity ranges.

What I did was alternate the shots from right out of the box to ones processed with the MTAP system.

The first target shown has the odd number shots being right out of the box, the even numbers are MTAP processed.

I then took those same targets and deleted every other shot to show group size and location of which.

As you can see, the MTAP ones printed averagely about 1/2 moa higher, indication of a slightly higher bc.

The conditions were with me holding 1 moa to the right (3 rings right on LRFC target).

Something that surprised me more than anything was the amount of wind drift reduction shown with about .25 moa less wind drift than bullets not MTAP processed.

 

[Bryan Blake]

 

[Katie Lee]

MTAP PREORDER NOW LIVE!

If you have not seen the final version of the MTAP System, please watch our MTAP System video here:

The current expected shipment date is Nov. 15th - Dec, 15th 2024 with one bullet caliber of your choice. You can preorder here: https://fclassproducts.com/mtap-meplat-trimming-and-pointing-system/

Additional bullet calibers can be purchased separately here: https://fclassproducts.com/bullet-caliber-set-up-for-mtap-system/

 

[DocBII]

Katie,

Whidden pointing system with pointers and sleeves (six calibers), approximately $250. (I bought one of the first ones.) Hand held trimmer (made by someone else) using endmills, Y channel and steel guide with 1" aluminum bullet guides, $50.

I think I'll pass. Too many other ways to skin this cat.

Thanks,
DocBII

 

[ridgeway]

Wouldn't you want that sharp cut angle blended to more of a radius shape?

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Katie,

Whidden pointing system with pointers and sleeves (six calibers), approximately $250. (I bought one of the first ones.) Hand held trimmer (made by someone else) using endmills, Y channel and steel guide with 1" aluminum bullet guides, $50.

I think I'll pass. Too many other ways to skin this cat.

Thanks,
DocBII

which one would be faster?

 

[DocBII]

BB,

If I just point and trim, probably about the same. It would depend upon how long you have to hold the bullet in the device. When trimming, about 0.010" is removed from the bullet, taking about 5-10 seconds depending upon the bullet. Pointing is as fast as I can run a press, say five seconds per bullet, which would probably be slow.

To make the finished bullets more consistent, I usually sort them by ogive length first. This provides three reference points check for ogive consistency, one at the ogive, one where the bullet is held in the trimmer, and the end of the untrimmed bullet. It also helps the bullet overall length to be consistent.

HTH,
DocBII

 

[sdbob]

I just received 3000 6mm bullets so no more sorting for length. I’ve got my order in, will give it a try. I shoot matches in the Midwest ( lots of wind ) interested in the bc help in the wind regard. Even when using custom bullets there are a lot of messed up met-plates.

 

[divingin]

Wouldn't you want that sharp cut angle blended to more of a radius shape?

Possible answer: If you look at VLD (secant ogive) vs the tangent ogive bullets, the point where the nose meets the body is much more of a definite angle (as opposed to smooth curve from nose into body.) Pretty much the same thing you're seeing here.

Aerodynamically, you may get a "sleeker" bullet by forcing the air to break from the surface. I'm not sure of this though, as I'm not an aerodynamics guru.

 

[mikecr]

OAL plays pretty much nothing to BC, but meplat diameter is huge.
I would worry with your approach about so high a transition from turning to ogive