Most consistent/accurate sizing die?

[Matt_3479]

In that case it's not the expander Once fired stiff loads or light loads? did you measure base to shoulder on your once fired to check for inconsistencies? The brass is likely not fully formed and if you set your die off a long piece shorter base to shoulder pieces might be showing up.

I apologize, this die was previously set up to this chambers 2x fired brass before bumping. I have 3 different batches. I fired the first one twice, set die, then continued forward firing the next two batches so they all get fired the same amount and rotate, incase I need back to back range days without spending the remainder of the first day in the reloading room cleaning, sizing, annealing and prepping.

 

[wkdickinson]

The die doesn't change, it is what it is and it is a "good" die. So, it has to be the cases. It could be not fully fire-formed, inconsistent or incorrect annealing, sizing lubricant on the shoulder, inconsistent sizing technique, but it's not the dies. The die does what is supposed to each and every time, it comes down to what and how you are feeding.

 

[jackieschmidt]

All a “custom” die will give you over a Redding is a better match to your fired brass. If your press is set up properly, neither will have no advantage over the other as far as the Consistency in “bumping” back the shoulder.

 

[Metal God]

The die doesn't change, it is what it is and it is a "good" die. So, it has to be the cases. It could be not fully fire-formed, inconsistent or incorrect annealing, sizing lubricant on the shoulder, inconsistent sizing technique, but it's not the dies. The die does what is supposed to each and every time, it comes down to what and how you are feeding.

^^^^^^^^^^^^Correct ^^^^^^^^^^^^

It's press deflection/flex , it almost always is . At least nobody has suggested grinding on anything yet . lol

OP do me a favor and you will have to sacrifice a few cases to do this . Screw the die down until the die and shell holder make HARD contact NO CAM OVER , to a full stop on each other . Now size a few cases at that setting and measure . The total measurement is not what's important in this test . What you are testing is will the cases come out more consistent at that die setting . If they do you either need to anneal better , get a custom die or get a set of competition shell holders . Comp shell holders is what I suggest .

 

[Matt_3479]

^^^^^^^^^^^^Correct ^^^^^^^^^^^^

It's press deflection/flex , it almost always is . At least nobody has suggested grinding on anything yet . lol

OP do me a favor and you will have to sacrifice a few cases to do this . Screw the die down until the die and shell holder make HARD contact NO CAM OVER , to a full stop on each other . Now size a few cases at that setting and measure . The total measurement is not what's important in this test . What you are testing is will the cases come out more consistent at that die setting . If they do you either need to anneal better , get a custom die or get a set of competition shell holders . Comp shell holders is what I suggest .

well seeing as brass for the 223 is easy to come by I will give it a whirl.

 

[Mike402]

Forster makes a very good die. I would argue their FL dies are better than Redding’s.

For $150-$200 you can have a die made that matches your chamber perfectly. Whidden does this. All you need is 3 fired cases and some patience.

I'm assuming if you went this route you would want your own reamer as well? Otherwise wouldn't you also have to spring for new dies every time you swap your barrel out?

 

[Clancy]

I'm assuming if you went this route you would want your own reamer as well? Otherwise wouldn't you also have to spring for new dies every time you swap your barrel out?

Yes. I bought my BRA and 6.5x47 reamers. I think I’m going to buy a GT reamer soon too. Luckily, my smith cut my BR with a brand new JGS, so it should be a heck of a long time before I need to buy one of those.

I think you could probably get by just fine with another reamer cut by the same maker off the same print, but I’ve never had to try it.

Ive had such great luck with Forster dies that I’ll rarely spring for a custom anyhow.

 

[284winner]

Forster makes a very good die. I would argue their FL dies are better than Redding’s.

For $150-$200 you can have a die made that matches your chamber perfectly. Whidden does this. All you need is 3 fired cases and some patience.

Just ordered 2 FL bushing dies from Whidden earlier this month. They need 16 weeks to make them but I think it's the best option overall. Considering both cartridges are wildcat and improved versions. Just tough finding a match from a catalog

 

[jimmymac]

Once fired cases are not fully formed IMO and require little sizing. I can still achieve proper shoulder bump, so you have something going on in your process. I suspect over sizing on the 1x brass (easy enough to do) and/or inconsistent case lube. I wouldn't worry about the press too much. A press is a press for the most part. I wouldn't chase my tail on that one. I'd eliminate the obvious first.

If you aren't using die shims or a device like PMA or Whidden makes, fine die adjustments are difficult to achieve. I couldn't get along without them for as often as I make minor adjustments on the order of about .001 at a time. Also, I never lube the shoulders of my cases. A light wipe of Imperial on the case body and the neck only and you may find your shoulder bump issues go away.

Dies need fiddled with based on how many firing cycles they have gone through. I do not anneal, so die adjustments as brass ages are part of the game for me.

 

[284winner]

Once fired cases are not fully formed IMO and require little sizing. I can still achieve proper shoulder bump, so you have something going on in your process. I suspect over sizing on the 1x brass (easy enough to do) and/or inconsistent case lube. I wouldn't worry about the press too much. A press is a press for the most part. I wouldn't chase my tail on that one. I'd eliminate the obvious first.

If you aren't using die shims or a device like PMA or Whidden makes, fine die adjustments are difficult to achieve. I couldn't get along without them for as often as I make minor adjustments on the order of about .001 at a time. Also, I never lube the shoulders of my cases. A light wipe of Imperial on the case body and the neck only and you may find your shoulder bum issues go away.

Dies need fiddled with based on how many firing cycles they have gone through. I do not anneal, so die adjustments as brass ages are part of the game for me.

I feel like 3 firings are needed for improved cartridges to get consistent brass size

 

[jimmymac]

I feel like 3 firings are needed for improved cartridges to get consistent brass size

I don't have any improved cartridges, but I will say that 1X brass is not fully blown out in my PPC or 30BR chambers, so I'm using a very light hand when sizing those cases. I can easily chamber an un-sized 1X fired piece of brass in my guns with little to no bolt resistance, so I'll set my die to only bump the shoulder .001.

At 2X firings, I'm starting to see my cases get pretty well blown out and will shoulder bump on the order of .0015 to .002 maximum for smooth operation in these custom bolt guns. I know a lot of guys bump shoulders on the order of .003 or .004 or more and it works well for them, but I've seen no need to do that.

 

[284winner]

I don't have any improved cartridges, but I will say that 1X brass is not fully blown out in my PPC or 30BR chambers, so I'm using a light hand when sizing those cases. I can easily chamber an un-sized 1X fired piece of brass in my guns with little to no bolt resistance, so I'll set my die to only bump the shoulder .001.

At 2X firings, I'm starting to see my cases get pretty well blown out and will shoulder bump on the order of .0015 to .002 maximum for smooth operation in these custom bolt guns. I know a lot of guys bump shoulders on the order of .003 or .004 or more and it works well for them, but I've seen no need to do that.

Improved cases in my experience depending on the case take 2 but many times or most times 3 to get mirror chamber size in the brass. Unfortunately you can't fireform 3 times before sending the brass to Whidden when you don't have a die to resize the necks to reload them for further forming. Whidden does a great job doing the job tho knowing this issue

 

[284winner]

The Whidden click adjust dies sound very useful. The .001" per click will be real nice when bumping the shoulder. Usually there's only a visible mark on the micro adjust and no positive click feel to know how much the dial moved. This seems like a better die adjust option to me.

 

[jimmymac]

The Whidden click adjust dies sound very useful. The .001" per click will be real nice when bumping the shoulder. Usually there's only a visible mark on the micro adjust and no positive click feel to know how much the dial moved. This seems like a better die adjust option to me.

I've used both the PMA and the Whidden die adjusters. I prefer the PMA because it is a lot faster to manipulate without using a hex key. Splitting marks on the PMA is very useful. Total adjustability. Like all things, there is no one right answer. JMHO having compared and used both pretty extensively.

 

[urbanrifleman]

All a “custom” die will give you over a Redding is a better match to your fired brass. If your press is set up properly, neither will have no advantage over the other as far as the Consistency in “bumping” back the shoulder.

While people say the nut barrel is inferior to a shouldered one (which it isn't). My customers can set their headspace to the die because they can use their fired brass to headspace if they choose. Not the other way around. No need for custom dies.

 

[Rat Rifle]

While people say the nut barrel is inferior to a shouldered one (which it isn't). My customers can set their headspace to the die because they can use their fired brass to headspace if they choose. Not the other way around. No need for custom dies.

Just did it on two rifles. Not saying it is the best, just the way I do it.

 

[Nealm66]

Same here

 

[Nealm66]

I think it helps to remove the expander on FL dies

 

[Rat Rifle]

With all the information stated here, it should be no surprise the case length could be off by .002”. Trimming off the shoulder “ASSUMES” the case base to datum line is perfect. We have hear heard many examples of where this could be untrue. I prefer to trim case base to case neck mouth dimension. This is easier to keep nearly perfect.

A subject for another thread could be, does .002” difference in anything make a difference???

 

[JMayo]

My bra die is a Wilson br "fixed" by my Gun Smith
My 30br & ppc are both Harrels.
All are bushing dies.

No expander, no mandrel ....

I do not seen to have near the trouble sooo very many do.
I don't know wth is happening with so many. It's unreal to me...