mram10
I have always used the rcbs then trickled, but I am wanting to be lazy and just throw charges right into the case then seat a bullet 
I have a progressive Hornady loader and it came with a powder measure, it and the RCBS is the same and i set it up on the press and it wasn't worth the time i used to set it up. Loading .223 with 8208 it would not hold .4……… i took it off and used static and just threw charges and it was a little better, back in the box. Set my Harrells up and it threw a -.1 so i made a funnel and mounted the Harrells so i could dump it manual, but not attached to the press. Now the .223 can hold a .1…….. and the vibration is less and it is a little slower but way more accurate…….. jim
I have been watching this thread with a lot of interest. There is no doubt that good technique has a tremendous impact of how good our powder measure will work for us. Those of you who have the entire library of past issues of Precision Shooting could prove helpful for all of us. There had been an article written by a gentleman who approached it from an engineering aspect. I do not remember his name, but it had been very well written and had substantial testing done of various measures, and methods of operation. If memory serves, he had shown that an "S" curved drop tube design had shown as being superior to a straight drop tube for the powder drop.
When I had been a member of the Sinclair Reloading Tech. Team Crew, we had tried to duplicate the results. We had found that his recommendations to be very good in that you would want to be methodical in the operation of the measure. If you felt that a kernel would try to stop you, you would power through and cut the kernel and use the charge. We found that this type of operation to be surprisingly accurate in testing!
The method the writer had shown as best is one that would have you run several cycles through the measure to get the powder flowing. Once that had been done, you would as smoothly as possible move the handle to the stop of your throw, and then come back as smoothly to drop the charge. You did not want to do a double tap at the top, or the bottom, of the stroke since this could induce inconsistencies of the powder drop. Our testing did confirm the inconsistencies with the extra taps!
If one of you would be able to find this article in your archive, this would be a good one to see if permission could be granted to re-print it to be included as a resource to all readers of Accurate Shooter. It is that good!
On a side note, we did find a "dark horse" of a find for a good out of the box powder measure, with a certain caveat. We found that the Lee Perfect Powder Measure had shown to be one of the most consistent out of the box powder measures tested! With the way the "wiper system" is designed, it had been found to be able to handle the "crunchier" powders with very good consistency. Where the caveat comes into play is that we felt that if a better stand, and a drop tube, were fabricated, it would be hard to beat it! I had been impressed enough with it that I keep one in my range kit as a backup to my modified Redding BR-30.
Cordially,
Bob Blaine
Berger Bullets
Technical Specialist
When I had been a member of the Sinclair Reloading Tech. Team Crew, we had tried to duplicate the results. We had found that his recommendations to be very good in that you would want to be methodical in the operation of the measure. If you felt that a kernel would try to stop you, you would power through and cut the kernel and use the charge. We found that this type of operation to be surprisingly accurate in testing!
The method the writer had shown as best is one that would have you run several cycles through the measure to get the powder flowing. Once that had been done, you would as smoothly as possible move the handle to the stop of your throw, and then come back as smoothly to drop the charge. You did not want to do a double tap at the top, or the bottom, of the stroke since this could induce inconsistencies of the powder drop. Our testing did confirm the inconsistencies with the extra taps!
If one of you would be able to find this article in your archive, this would be a good one to see if permission could be granted to re-print it to be included as a resource to all readers of Accurate Shooter. It is that good!
On a side note, we did find a "dark horse" of a find for a good out of the box powder measure, with a certain caveat. We found that the Lee Perfect Powder Measure had shown to be one of the most consistent out of the box powder measures tested! With the way the "wiper system" is designed, it had been found to be able to handle the "crunchier" powders with very good consistency. Where the caveat comes into play is that we felt that if a better stand, and a drop tube, were fabricated, it would be hard to beat it! I had been impressed enough with it that I keep one in my range kit as a backup to my modified Redding BR-30.
Cordially,
Bob Blaine
Berger Bullets
Technical Specialist
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
Some time ago, there was an article published on the internet relating to powder measure modification to improve the performance of a RCBS powder measure. I have looked for it since then, and cannot find it. The fellow had done a lot of work and testing, throwing thousands of charges. I won't say that he found the magic combination, but he did do some things that improved the performance of his measure.
One was to fabricate a new handle that was twice as long. I think that this helped power through cut grains without so much of an interruption in the stroke, as well as turning the operation into a more consistent arm motion, and less of a flip of the wrist.
The second thing involved the fabrication of a much sturdier measure stand. He said that he had found that all commercial stands allowed more measure vibration than was good for consistency of charges. I believe that his had an upright of 2" square tube, welded to a quarter inch thick flat plate that was about 6" square that was screwed to the bench. There was a strap of similar thickness that was welded across the top of the tube. that overhung front and back, with a hole in front to mount the measure.
The last detail was the baffle. After considerable experimentation with a number of designs, some quite involved, he determined that a simple flat plexiglass baffle, held in place by the compression of an O ring (I think) in a groove around its circumference. worked best. It had a half inch hole in its center, and its height in the reservoir was about an inch above the edge of the casting or thereabouts.
I do not use a RCBS measure, but I thought that I would provide this information for those that do.
The one thing that I would add to this is that in order to perfect your technique or evaluate equipment you need a scale that is better than the average electronic reloading scale, or untuned balance scale. I have had the extended use of a scale that read to .02 grains, and I own tuned balance scales that are quite sensitive that are useful for this kind of work.
I use a Harrell Deluxe measure at the range, leaving it in my range reloading kit, and one of several SAECO Micro-Set measures at home. The techniques that I use with them vary by powder and measure, and they did not come from an article or book, but from a lot of experimentation, from which I learned quite a lot about the effects of various aspects of measure operation.
My experience with baffles has convinced me that the best baffle is none at all, but to mark off a range of reservoir fill that works best and add powder to keep the fill in that range.
I could write a whole chapter on measure technique, but I won't bore you further here.
One was to fabricate a new handle that was twice as long. I think that this helped power through cut grains without so much of an interruption in the stroke, as well as turning the operation into a more consistent arm motion, and less of a flip of the wrist.
The second thing involved the fabrication of a much sturdier measure stand. He said that he had found that all commercial stands allowed more measure vibration than was good for consistency of charges. I believe that his had an upright of 2" square tube, welded to a quarter inch thick flat plate that was about 6" square that was screwed to the bench. There was a strap of similar thickness that was welded across the top of the tube. that overhung front and back, with a hole in front to mount the measure.
The last detail was the baffle. After considerable experimentation with a number of designs, some quite involved, he determined that a simple flat plexiglass baffle, held in place by the compression of an O ring (I think) in a groove around its circumference. worked best. It had a half inch hole in its center, and its height in the reservoir was about an inch above the edge of the casting or thereabouts.
I do not use a RCBS measure, but I thought that I would provide this information for those that do.
The one thing that I would add to this is that in order to perfect your technique or evaluate equipment you need a scale that is better than the average electronic reloading scale, or untuned balance scale. I have had the extended use of a scale that read to .02 grains, and I own tuned balance scales that are quite sensitive that are useful for this kind of work.
I use a Harrell Deluxe measure at the range, leaving it in my range reloading kit, and one of several SAECO Micro-Set measures at home. The techniques that I use with them vary by powder and measure, and they did not come from an article or book, but from a lot of experimentation, from which I learned quite a lot about the effects of various aspects of measure operation.
My experience with baffles has convinced me that the best baffle is none at all, but to mark off a range of reservoir fill that works best and add powder to keep the fill in that range.
I could write a whole chapter on measure technique, but I won't bore you further here.
Larryh128
Silver $$ Contributor
Interesting that Bob Blaine found the same thing that I have.The cheap Lee is still mounted on my bench & used. A LOT of more expense measures have come & gone. With Benchmark which I use for my AR loads, I only double check about every 20 rounds on the scale. They are all thrown out of the Lee and are so consistant that weighing every charge would be a waste of time on high volume loading.
mram10
Great info guys. Keep it coming. I think I will try a lee for a while and see how it goes.
Don't all powder measures work on the same principal. A solid cylinder that moves in a tube to vary the volume? Are there differences among brands as to how the fill opening is closed.
I have a 40 YO old Culver/Harrell. It has a knocker weight to settle the powder. I now use an old Pacific measure with a tall clear tube. I put a mark on the tube about 5" up. I don't allow the powder height to get more than about 1 1/2" below this mark. Never tried to determine repeatability. I use mostly 8208 which is fine grained and trickle up to weight on the scale.
I have a 40 YO old Culver/Harrell. It has a knocker weight to settle the powder. I now use an old Pacific measure with a tall clear tube. I put a mark on the tube about 5" up. I don't allow the powder height to get more than about 1 1/2" below this mark. Never tried to determine repeatability. I use mostly 8208 which is fine grained and trickle up to weight on the scale.
In all honesty if your weighing than you're probably going to be throwing light anyways , so if you give yourself a couple tenths to play with you'd still be in the spectrum with pretty much any of the throwers out there.
What I will say though with respect to a Harrells and a couple of the others mentioned is that if I take my measure and screw the cavity all the way in or out I can return to a given click value (Say 68.5 clicks) and guess what the charge weighs ?? I can tell you that it is rite there where I had it last... With some of the others that use their "Micrometer adjuster" not so much.
For me that is worth the extra expense and is indeed an accurate powder measure.
What I will say though with respect to a Harrells and a couple of the others mentioned is that if I take my measure and screw the cavity all the way in or out I can return to a given click value (Say 68.5 clicks) and guess what the charge weighs ?? I can tell you that it is rite there where I had it last... With some of the others that use their "Micrometer adjuster" not so much.
For me that is worth the extra expense and is indeed an accurate powder measure.
I didn't want to say this, but after reading Bob Blaine's post I have a LEE PERFECT POWDER MEASURE On my loading bench, I got it on a bet with a guy that I shot with. He told me it was the most accurate measure there was. So I got one for $25 couldn't go wrong. He won the bet. For the money I bought another one for my camper at the range. You'll never regret it!
Joe Salt
Joe Salt
+ one on the Lee LarryJoe Salt said:
Most accurate powder thrower? My spoon ;D sorry couldn't help it!
michaelnel
Old and In The Way
I too have a Lee Perfect measure. It is almost unbearably cheesy in construction and materials, and it meters big logs of Retumbo for my .338 LM better than anything else I have used. I use it to throw light and then trickle up to target weight with an Omega trickler. I can set the Lee pretty close to target weight and it is remarkably consistent. You have to work it correctly though. It takes time for that 90 grains of Retumbo to fill the cavity, so I watch it flow from the hopper, then slowly drop the powder into the pan. Sometimes it bridges and nothing at all flows, but that is pretty rare.
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