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Most Accurate Electronic Powder Thrower/Measure Available?

SHall

Silver $$ Contributor
I see on our bulletin where RCBS has a new electronic powder dispenser with a claimed 0.04g accuracy. It has a price tag nearing $900. That accuracy sounds great. The original has a claimed accuracy of 0.1g at way less than half the cost. I have never done a test to see how much 0.1g make on target at 600 or 1000 yards for benchest accuracy. I am looking at an electronic powder dispenser to speed things up since I am now looking for myself and my son to shoot Long range benchrest. Throwing and weighing powder is by far my slowest process. Is the another brand, Hornady etc that is as good or close for the money? Thanks for you comments. Samuel Hall
 
I see on our bulletin where RCBS has a new electronic powder dispenser with a claimed 0.04g accuracy. It has a price tag nearing $900. That accuracy sounds great. The original has a claimed accuracy of 0.1g at way less than half the cost. I have never done a test to see how much 0.1g make on target at 600 or 1000 yards for benchest accuracy. I am looking at an electronic powder dispenser to speed things up since I am now looking for myself and my son to shoot Long range benchrest. Throwing and weighing powder is by far my slowest process. Is the another brand, Hornady etc that is as good or close for the money? Thanks for you comments. Samuel Hall

Sam,
To answer your question, the regular charge master from RCBS is a good unit. It is slow and needs a couple of improvements. The brass insert in the tube or a plastic straw helps a lot with charges being thrown a bit heavy.
I have found running the system on a battery pack leads to much more consistent charges.
Having said that, I have an FX120i with auto throw and auto trickler. I suspect I would be pretty grouchy if I had to go back to the chargemaster as my primary powder dispensing system. It really does spoil you.

I use my Chargemaster to load at the range for load development, and it is perfect for that.

CW
 
Thanks for you comments
Just something else to consider. You also don't describe your current system.

https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/05/cortinas-corner-chargemaster-tips-the-trickle-test/

To handle the volume of my annual prairie dog hunt, I added a 2'nd RCBS Chargemaster a few years ago. I have been trying to improve my powder load dispensing accuracy. I tried to avoid spending the $$ for an auto trickler system, but if that would be the system I would get, if some gave me $1000.

Since I have the two 1500's, and after watching Eric's film, I added a Dandy trickler. I dispense from the first 1500, transfer it to the 2'nd while the first is dispensing the next charge. You will be surprised at how much variation there is coming from the first scale. And by tricking up slowly using the Dandy, I feel I am approaching the numbers Eric demonstrated. My ES and SD have tightened.
 
Slow, precise trickling is the key for any system; especially avoiding dropping a clump of powder. I added a small diameter brass insert and adjusted the trickling parameters on my CM and it provides +/-.05 based on a more precise scale. This is also the best I could achieve on my tuned beam using a Dandy trickler. A better scale could provide tighter, but unless you have an excellent trickler the scale would simply reject more charges.
 
Slow, precise trickling is the key for any system; especially avoiding dropping a clump of powder. I added a small diameter brass insert and adjusted the trickling parameters on my CM and it provides +/-.05 based on a more precise scale. This is also the best I could achieve on my tuned beam using a Dandy trickler. A better scale could provide tighter, but unless you have an excellent trickler the scale would simply reject more charges.

Do you have a parameter list of changes that are needed tweak the cm you would be willing to share?
Wayne
 
Do you have a parameter list of changes that are needed tweak the cm you would be willing to share?
Wayne

Been quite a while, I will check. I found the descriptions somewhere online. As I recall I set the trickling mode to come on sooner, and to run slower speed.
 
Sam

Prometheus is by far the fastest and most accurate.
I say this because I own one along with the auto trickler for my Sartorius scales and I also have the MatchMaster by RCBS.
 
Sam

Prometheus is by far the fastest and most accurate.
I say this because I own one along with the auto trickler for my Sartorius scales and I also have the MatchMaster by RCBS.
James, how does your RCBS MatchMaster compare to your other systems? Samuel
 
Do you have a parameter list of changes that are needed tweak the cm you would be willing to share?
Here are one set

But most I have seen are geared toward speeding up powder disbursing. What I found using the Dandy, is for accuracy you need to slow down, really slow down the last few granules of powder dropping into the pan.
 
The best parameter list for the Chargemaster I've seen is posted below. It proved useless for me in trying to improve the precision of throws when the scale matches your target value.

Here's the article from the 6BR site:
December 24, 2008
TECH TIP: How to Speed Up Your RCBS ChargeMaster 1500
Filed under: Reloading, Tech Tip — Editor @ 11 am
The RCBS ChargeMaster 1500 electronic powder scale and dispenser is the most popular product of its kind on the market. In our original Electronic Powder Dispenser Comparison Test, the ChargeMaster normally dispensed most kinds of powder faster than competitive units from Lyman and PACT. However, after the initial release of the ChargeMaster 1500, RCBS “tweaked” the software a bit to achieve more consistent charge-throws. This slowed down the process somewhat. Some owners have wanted to speed up their ChargeMaster. This IS possible with a relatively simple reprogramming. Most of the internal parameters of the Chargemaster can be modified, under guidance from the tech staff at RCBS.

Gunsmith and Forum member NAT Lambeth reports: “I thought My RCBS ChargeMaster 1500 Combo was fast enough. But I still called RCBS and asked for the programing changes to see if I could speed it up. It was a lot easier than I thought. My 1500 Combo was taking from 15-30 seconds to dispense the powder to the tenth of a grain. I reprogrammed the numbers and now it takes between 7 and 15 seconds to dispense to a tenth. This effectively doubled my loading speed. I only changed the HSB_A1, HSB_B1, and BSP_C1 settings.”

Key ChargeMaster Parameters with Default Settings
HSB_A1 (15.68) Grains under target weight to go from full to high speed
HSB_B1 (3.42) Grains under target weight to go from high to slow speed
BSP_C1 (1.08) Grains under target weight to go from slow to final trickle speed

Nat cautions that you should talk to a RCBS tech before attempting to re-program your ChargeMaster: “You will benefit from talking to the RCBS tech. I have now gone back and played with the numbers a couple of times. (The numbers given to me by the tech at RCBS were still a little conservative.) I think each machine may have its own likes and dislikes. If you get too aggresive with lowering your numbers it will over-throw your intended load.“

Source for ALL the Parameters
There is an extensive discussion of RCBS ChargeMaster programming on the South Africa Hunting Rifle Shooting Assn. (SAJSV) Forum. In this SAJSV Forum ARTICLE, Jaco Brink lists virtually all the programming codes. Importantly, Jaco also provides the default values for various parameters. This is very important, because the ChargeMaster does not have a “return to default” option. Once you change any value, if you want to return to the original value you must enter it manually. Jaco cautions: “I have to advise you to only make changes to your scale if you are confident to do so, and remember that there is not a ‘return to default’ setting in the scale. If all else fails return your scale to the default settings [I have listed].”

CLICK HERE for list of RCBS ChargeMaster Default Programming Values [See the next article from the SAJ Hunting Rifle Site.]

Use a McDonald’s Straw to Reduce “Over-Throws”
Jaco Brink provided another useful tip to avoid “over-throws” (excess charge weight): “The RCBS employee advised me to take a McDonnell’s straw (because it is thicker than a normal straw), cut off about a half inch piece and put it into the tube where the powder exits. This caused the last part of an extruded powder to clutter less, and reduced the amount of overthrows dramatically.”

CLICK HERE for more ChargeMaster 1500 optimization TIPS. [See the last article pasted below.]

SAJ Hunting Rifle Article:

Improve your RCBS Charegemaster scale 2007/11/07 02:34 Karma: 41
A while ago the friend of mine phoned me regarding his RCBS Chargemaster combo scale. Up to then I have not taken much notice of my own scale, but he informed me that his scale was charging extremely slow. I timed mine and found that mine was running a lot faster then his. This set me on a journey to find out why there was a difference. The outcome however was that his scale was defective, but it gave us insightfull information about the working of these scales.

After doing some research on the internet I was able to determine that these little green scales are fully re-programmable. I sent an e-mail to RCBS on which I received no reply, and eventually telephoned them. They were very helpful and gave me their instructions on how to change the programming on this scale.

This has made a tremendous difference in my reloading experience with this scale. The scale is fully adjustable and there are many settings and that you can change. To enter the program mode pres EDIT MEM and ENTER at the same time. After making an adjustment pres ENTER to go to the next option. After the last setting the scale will reset and countdown. If you passed a setting you have to start from the beginning, there is no back button.

This is the list of settings that you can make to your scale, for some of the functions I do not have detailed instructions as to what they do, and would recommend that you do not change them:
HSB_A1 (15.68) Grains under target weight to go from full to high speed for low weight
HSB_B1 (3.42) Grains under target weight to go from high to slow speed low weight
BSP_C1 (1.08) Grains under target weight to go from slow to final trickle speed low weight

MSP_A2 (39.20) Grains under target weight to go from full to high speed for medium weight
MSP_B2 (8.55) Grains under target weight to go from high to slow speed medium weight
MSP_C2 (2.25) Grains under target weight to go from slow to final trickle speed medium weight

SSP_A3 (196.00) Grains under target weight to go from full to high speed for heavy weight

SSP_B3 (42.75) Grains under target weight to go from high to slow speed heavy weight
SSP_C3 (11.32) Grains under target weight to go from slow to final trickle speed heavy weight


SEL (065) ???
F_A (050) Grains for a Heavy Charge
M_A (035) Grains for a Medium charge
S_A (006) Grains for a slow charge
W_F (200) Rotation for Full speed
W_M (100) Rotation for Medium speed
W_S (036) Rotation for slowest speed

S_F (012) Scale sensitivity timeout time in m/s fast speed
S_M (024) Scale sensitivity timeout time in m/s medium speed
S_S (128) Scale sensitivity timeout time in m/s slow speed.

FR1 (040) ?
FS1 (016) ?
FR2 (080) ?
SR1 (032) ?
SS1 (008) ?
SR2 (040) ?
DEC (000) ?
AT (000) ?


I have to advise you to only make changes to your scale if you are confident to do so, and remember that there is not a “return to default” setting in the scale. If all else fails return your scale to the default settings listed above in brackets.
I am now able to throw 56 grains of S365 in less than 18 seconds (average of 15 charges), and with very few overthrows.

Another problem I experienced with the scale was that there were continued overthrows. The RCBS employee advised me to take a McDonnell's straw (because it is thicker than a normal straw), cut off about a half inch piece and put it into the tube where the powder exits. This caused the last part of an extruded powder to clutter less, and reduced the amount of overthrows dramatically.

I hope you have more joy a with your scale now.
If you have any other suggestions or recommendations on how to improve the functionality of this scale please reply on this topic

===============================================================================================

1. Turn the unit on.
2. When 0.0gn is on the display, press BOTH the ENTER and the EDIT MEM keys on the dispenser at the same time. Hold for a second and then release. If done properly ADJUST PARAMETER should scroll across the display followed by HSP 00015.68 (This number represents the number of grains away from your entered charge when the tube will shift from fast speed to medium speed. That is at 15.68 gn from your target charge the dispenser will shift from fast to medium speed.) To speed up the unit, this number needs to be decreased and to slow down the unit, this number needs to be increased. (On a slow unit, I would change this number to11.00 gn this is done by pressing the following keys: 1 1 0 0 ENTER (pressing the enter key sets that value and moves to next setting in program in this case, to medium speed to slow speed setting)
3. HSP 00003.42 should scroll across the display now. This number represents where the unit will shift from medium to slow speed. Using the same process as before in # 2. For a slow unit I would change this number to 2.50 gn this is done by pressing the following keys: 2 5 0 ENTER (pressing the enter key sets that value and moves to next setting in program in this case, to slow speed to trickle speed setting)
4. HSP 00001.08 should now scroll across the screen. This number represents where the unit will shift from slow speed to trickle. Using the same process as before in # 2. For a slow unit I would change this number to .90 gn this is done by pressing the following keys: 9 0 ENTER
5. This is all the adjustment that needs to be done to the unit. You need to press the ENTER key to cycle through the rest of the program. (approx. 22 times) The unit will start its normal initial countdown process when this is done. You need to test out the dispenser now.
 
Here are one set

But most I have seen are geared toward speeding up powder disbursing. What I found using the Dandy, is for accuracy you need to slow down, really slow down the last few granules of powder dropping into the pan.

Thank you very much!.... I changed my parameters a few years ago and I don’t remember which tweaks they were but it’s fairly consistent after whatever I did but it’s pretty slow. I’ll write down what they are now then try putting your numbers in and see how it does.
Wayne
 
Thank you Twoboxer that was the one I think I had before but I’ll copy it down.
Wayne
YW for sure. To add a note - IMO the parameter most closely associated with precision is S_S . . . the length of time to wait until the scale has settled. These parameters are 1 byte in length, so the maximum value is 255. Having the scale wait a full 0.255 seconds can, in some circumstances, produce better results.

You can also try lowering W_S to slow down the last controllable trickle stage, but if I recall correctly the final trickle stage is permanently set and cannot be changed. If my memory is correct, W_S is the parameter for the slowest trickle speed BEFORE the final trickle . . . which made this parameter useless. In any case, I do recall taht lowering it to 001 produced no visible change in results.
 
https://www.facebook.com/chuck.loebsack

Sam, loading for the world open was such a chore that I bit the bullet and upgraded my powder charging procedure. Best money I've spent in a long time. My target weight is 30.50 Gr's. of H4895. Approx. 70 to 75% of my charges are dead nuts and the way I have the system tweaked, when the charge is off, it's only off by .02gr's. and always under so I can just pick up one kernel with a pair of tweezers and drop it into the case after I drop the charge in. It has cut my time down from approx. 1:30 min to about 25 seconds per round.
 

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