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Modern primers and tube magazines

Wolfdog91

Silver $$ Contributor
Ok so hope this isn't a stupid question but this is something I'm curious about. With modern primers , what realistically is the chance you could set off a primer in a tube fed magazine with a pointed bullet ? Also what about with a ballistic tip bullet ? Where older primers more sensitive? I'm a just a bit curious because now days i hear more about primers not wanting to go off more then anything, and I figure a striking firing pin has we more force then then a smk poking the bottom of a primer but idk. Has anyone tried looking back into this is recent years ?
Thanks :)
 
Wolfdog91 said:
Ok so hope this isn't a stupid question but this is something I'm curious about. With modern primers , what realistically is the chance you could set off a primer in a tube fed magazine with a pointed bullet ? Also what about with a ballistic tip bullet ? Where older primers more sensitive? I'm a just a bit curious because now days i hear more about primers not wanting to go off more then anything, and I figure a striking firing pin has we more force then then a smk poking the bottom of a primer but idk. Has anyone tried looking back into this is recent years ?
Thanks :)
Click to expand...
I would vehemently say no, don't do it. It may or may not work but the possibility of a number of rounds going off in a magazine you're holding in your hand shielded only by a thin piece of wood is way too much of a risk. To shoot pointed bullets in a tube mag gun one could single load them one at a time, or chamber one and then load the mag with flat or round nose. Or, one pointed in the chamber and one pointed in the mag and nothing else. Then you have a two-shooter!
 
Get yourself an 8mm Lebel; it was designed with this in mind back in the 1890s.
 
Remington pumps had a spiral groove in magazine tube for pointed cartridges..why not bring it back? Remington patent may be expired... Then again savage 99, win 88, Ruger lever action w rotary mag, all discontinued. Keeps the demand for the classics
 
If you want to use a pointed bullet in a tube magazine then use the Hornady flex tips, that is the reason they came out with it, mainly. Other hard tipped bullets would be a no, no. for your safety and those near you.
It is not worth taking the chance to see if others would work or not.
Primers are primers and they all can go bang, the old one's were no less sensitive than the new one's, so do not take the chance.
 
This would be better asked or researched with the SASS/Cowboy shooters. There seems to be enough in magazine cartridge detonations with lead round nose bullets that trying jacketed metal pointed bullet would just be foolish. Those guys shoot fast and in very large quantities, so experience shows, odds are increased that it will happen by round count alone. And it does happen enough that it gets talked about.

The other test that is similar, is the claim that you can get a slam fire in an AR by continually chambering and removing that same round. Insert magazine, chamber a round, off duty remove the round and place it back on top of the magazine. Chamber the same round the next day and repeat the process. Eventually that round fires with the floating pin by the continued beating.

I have duplicated the AR phenomenon, and it took something like 50 chamberings. But it did happen.

In a tube feed you have the weight of the whole stack on the slamming on the bottom round each shot. So in a small cartridge rifle like 38 Special or 357 magnum, the last rounds get hit multiple times before being chambered, just like the AR round.

What works in your favor is most tube feeds are also rimmed cartridges. So it’s harder to get the bullet point centered on the primer. So the more tapered the cartridge is the less likely it is to happen.

Key words, “less likely”. Kinda like roulette, spin the wheel enough times, sonnet or later you’re a winner. It’s just not a chance worth taking.

One example

Magazine tube detonation

Uberti Win 73, probably 10K plus rounds on it. Short stroked, tuned etc. shooting 130 grn RNFP Bullets with 3.0 Bullseye. Loaded with Dillon 750 Fired 5 rounds. 5th round made an odd noise, normal sound plus a POP I did not feel anything unusual. Case ejected. Then rifle jammed. Looking in, I cou...
forums.sassnet.com
 
This seems to be a very clear case of "even once is too much, so I'm not going to find out". However, it's possible you might be able to find an informed answer to the question at the shooting range. Just look for the guy wearing an eyepatch and pulling the trigger with his hook. ;)
 
In my Opinion most tube feed guns are built around calibers that round or flat nose bullet are best for their intended use. basically short range hunting
but thats just my opinion
 
Wolfdog , you posted a video of Mark and Sam shooting a 30/30 at over 1000 yds over at Cast Boolits yesterday. Mark did not give it a whole lot of attention, but he did say that the pointed bullets he was shooting were to be loaded one at a time, not in the magazine. These will go boom in the magazine, and if you watched your own video YOU KNOW BETTER. Why are you asking this here ?
 
ebb said:
Wolfdog , you posted a video of Mark and Sam shooting a 30/30 at over 1000 yds over at Cast Boolits yesterday. Mark did not give it a whole lot of attention, but he did say that the pointed bullets he was shooting were to be loaded one at a time, not in the magazine. These will go boom in the magazine, and if you watched your own video YOU KNOW BETTER. Why are you asking this here ?
Click to expand...
Honestly? Because I was hoping this was actually tested possibly in recent years. I find so much stuff was done a certain way because back in the day technology was limited in one way or another and you had to do it that way and that was just written in stone as the only way to do it do to the limitations . However as thing progress , materials get better , new tech comes out , a lot of things and practices can be made obsolete if rethought. However most stick with he whole " if it ain't broke don't fix it mentality" and don't even try. That or they just parrot stuff they've been told their entire lives ,something like you need to neck size for the best accuracy or anything under 30cal isn't appropriate for deer being two examples. So with that being said with all the various improvements on any and every thing shooting and reloading related in the last what 150yr since tube fed mags became a thing , i figured "Hay maybe something has changed where nowdays it's not really a problem"
And I'll be honest here I'm no an expert ok. And I tend to question about everything. No like you can really advance if you don't question stuff.I honestly didn't know if hay maybe primer back into he day where more volatile, I mean honestly makes sense to me that they would for a few reasons. And if they where more sensitive/volatile then yeah would make a lot of sense to not have tipped bullets but again ,IDK maybe modern primers just don't suffer from that. Hence why I'm making myself look like a idot and just asking.
Maybe there was something done in recent years that made that obsolete. Many times I've found you'll have a small group of folks who have tested stuff and made things work but they keep to them selves and you gotta ask around to find them , but their a wealth of knowledge when you get a hold of them ( looking at you guys in the 6mm arc .224 Valkyrie and HV cast bench rest communities)
O and Mark and sam. I love them but didn't it funny how 80% of the time I post a YouTube video everyone and there mom wants to talk about how just anyone jack wagon can make a YouTube video and there's so much bad information out there and you should be careful. But now I should know better because I watched a video where a YouTuber said something about not doing XYZ......
But I digress. Long story short I was just curious if something possibly changed in the last 150yr
 
For this to not be a problem the laws of nature would have to have changed. Even if primers have become less sensitive, this is still not a good idea. I love your posts and the fact that you are not caught up in the idea that boat load of money has to be spent to enjoy this sport. You work within a budget and i pretty much do the same. My concern is for your safety. If you want to shoot pointed bullets in a lever action, go right ahead. just do it like they did on the video. Don't load them in the magazine. I would be a little concerned that someone else might use them and load the tube with them, but a warning on the box should keep any body that uses your kit from getting messed up. Any jack wagon can make a You Tube video but many are just down right good clean fun, and Mark and Sam do a nice job of it. But some, where Kentucky ridiculous Ballistics blows you a nice Garand, not so much. Make us a video of you shooting a tiny group with your lever action and pointed bullets, just don't load the magazine. Be SAFE.
 
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