Mod 70 pre 64

[Coolhand]

I have been offered a Mod 70 pre 64, chambered in .243 and has a bull barrel, as yet I have not seen the rifle nor do I have the serial number until the owner returns from vacation. However I was wondering if any forum members may have a copy of Roger Rules book on the Mod70, I don't have a copy as yet and would like to know the production dates and number of .243 bull barrel rifles produced. I think the .243 was first chambered 1955.
I own a pre 64 in .300 H&H 1960 in very good condition and the .243 might be too good to pass up.

many thanks
Mike.

 

[kountryboy2]

https://winchestercollector.org. Try this forum Mike. I have a pre 70 in 220 swift target grade. They helped me identify it.

 

[butchlambert]

I have been offered a Mod 70 pre 64, chambered in .243 and has a bull barrel, as yet I have not seen the rifle nor do I have the serial number until the owner returns from vacation. However I was wondering if any forum members may have a copy of Roger Rules book on the Mod70, I don't have a copy as yet and would like to know the production dates and number of .243 bull barrel rifles produced. I think the .243 was first chambered 1955.
I own a pre 64 in .300 H&H 1960 in very good condition and the .243 might be too good to pass up.

many thanks
Mike.

Never understood what "bull barrel" means. Actual value is the receiver only, unless it is an actual Winchester barrel contour.

 

[msinc]

Never understood what "bull barrel" means. Actual value is the receiver only, unless it is an actual Winchester barrel contour.

I think it comes from the Winchester term "Bull Gun" which actually was a Winchester offering that begin in 1936. The Models 52, 54 and 70 were all offered with what Winchester referred to as an "extra heavy" 26" barrel {28" for the Model 52} with target scope blocks. These rifles also had a heavier black walnut stock too. I cannot say whether other calibers were offered in the bull guns, but it is fair to say that just about all {if not all} 54's and 70's were 30-06. I have never read or seen anything to suggest the barrels were "selected" or measured for accuracy, it appears they were just heavier than varmint contour. After a while every rifle with a heavier than standard barrel was called a bull barrel.
They were all special order and had a pistol grip and wide forend. One thing is for sure, they are rare. In the case of "Bull Guns" the value is definitely not limited to the receiver only if it is a real honest to god Winchester special order. In later years many were faked. It is probably also fair to say that at this point there are more fakes then real items out there.
The 243 was offered from 1955 until 63 in standard, featherweight and varmint contours.

Edit: the USMC purchased 12 bull guns for use as a sniper weapon in Vietnam in 1965. I think I have seen about 150 of them so far!!!!

 

[butchlambert]

From a very knowledgeable pre64 Model 70 guy.

The heavy barrel model was an option and made for the "Perry" shooters. They came in 243, 30-06, 300 H&H and maybe more. That model in 243 if in 95-97% would probably be worth 1400-1600

 

[Darryll]

I have been offered a Mod 70 pre 64, chambered in .243 and has a bull barrel, as yet I have not seen the rifle nor do I have the serial number until the owner returns from vacation. However I was wondering if any forum members may have a copy of Roger Rules book on the Mod70, I don't have a copy as yet and would like to know the production dates and number of .243 bull barrel rifles produced. I think the .243 was first chambered 1955.
I own a pre 64 in .300 H&H 1960 in very good condition and the .243 might be too good to pass up.

many thanks
Mike.

My friend has a model 70 target rifle (Bull barrel) with a manufacture date of 1-29-1955 and it is stamped with 6M/M .308 case on the barrel along with a small Winchester proof mark that is right along side of the proof mark on the receiver. I checked on the Winchester website and it verifies that it was made in 1955. That's all I know.
Darryll

 

[243winxb]

1959 Shooters Bible has 3 M70 Target guns listed. Standard, Bull and the 3th one (photo) only 1 available in 243 Win cartridge.

 

[243winxb]

The other 2 M70s 1959
My first 243 was a M70 made in 1965 with the heavy barrel. Sold it, bought a Remington 40XB .

 

[LCazador]

The 243 was introduced in 1953 in the standard rifle. The first heavy barrel rifle in 243 was the model 70 Target manufactured 1955-1963. Target rifles in 90-95% can be worth as much as $2-3K. Values drop rapidly with condition and if bore is gone (usually the case in 243 rifles). Barrel is stamped with manufacture date on the underside of barrel. This date should coincide with serial number manufacture date.

 

[msinc]

The 243 was introduced in 1953 in the standard rifle........

This is interesting, considering the cartridge itself wasn't produced until 1955. There were wildcats that Warren Page and Fred Huntingdon experimented with beginning in 1930 or so. They necked down different cases, one being the 257 Roberts.
The 243 Winchester begin in 1955 when Winchester necked down the 308 case and offered it in the Model 70. There are pretty good write ups on the 243 Winchester in all the reloading manuals, Speer is probably one of the more thorough. Otherwise can you site where you got that it was released in 53??? I am unable to find this info anywhere.

 

[theMadAlaskan]

1959 Shooters Bible has 3 M70 Target guns listed. Standard, Bull and the 3th one (photo) only 1 available in 243 Win cartridge.
View attachment 1034121

I had to check out of curiosity, $180 in 1959 is a hair over $1500 today.

 

[243winxb]

Guns sold at auction > http://www.horstauction.com/gunsale17june.html

A super grade 270 sold for $1250. Condition is everything.

Google

winchester model 70 horst auction

to see more that sold.

 

[243winxb]

Bull barrel? R 124. Winchester Model 70 Varmint. Serial # 531514. .243 Win. caliber bolt action rifle made in 1961. 26″ straight tapered heavy varmint barrel with a bore that should clean to excellent. 95% plus of the original bluing remains on the metal with some muzzle wear and a few small dings and scratches on the barrel. The barrel channel was glass bedded and the barrel shows scratches along the length of the stock where it was bedded. The receiver, bolt, floorplate, and trigger guard show very little wear. Filler screws in front for sight base and at rear for target block are still in place. The standard Model 70 checkered walnut stock without a forend screw is in very good condition with some small dings and scratches. Extra finish has been applied. Plastic butt plate and 1¼” sling swivels. Trigger shoe. Action works fine. Includes a Simmons Boresighter 4X to 16X power scope in solid mounts. Made from 1956 to 1963. Please see the pictures to get a better idea of the condition. Additional Photo(C&R) Sold For 1,250.00

2 photos available , if you click the live links.

 

[LCazador]

This is interesting, considering the cartridge itself wasn't produced until 1955. There were wildcats that Warren Page and Fred Huntingdon experimented with beginning in 1930 or so. They necked down different cases, one being the 257 Roberts.
The 243 Winchester begin in 1955 when Winchester necked down the 308 case and offered it in the Model 70. There are pretty good write ups on the 243 Winchester in all the reloading manuals, Speer is probably one of the more thorough. Otherwise can you site where you got that it was released in 53??? I am unable to find this info anywhere.

Google 243 Winchester cartridge. Introduced in 1953.

 

[msinc]

Google 243 Winchester cartridge. Introduced in 1953.

I did, it says the same thing every where else...1955. What website??? Where exactly are you getting this information??? You have come up with information different than the rest of the world...presumably so you can be "the man". But it's not looking good sir, you have been asked twice now where EXACTLY and you hopped around the answer. Apparently "the man" is not in the know, he's just a fraud trying to make others think he knows something the rest of the world missed.
Winchester maintains it was released in 55, now you say "no, someone else released the 243 WINCHESTER 2 years earlier" or, "the rest of the world is wrong and I alone am correct, it was 53".....okay, no doubt everyone believes you, especially since you back up what you say so well.

 

[Nature Boy]

Why spend so much emotional capital arguing over a cartridge designed for women and children





(that's a joke guys)

 

[243winxb]

https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/6mm-winchester-243-winchester/6901

6mm Winchester/308 Winchester. History 1951.

I remember a gunsmith , "old John" that hunted with a 240 Page in the 1960s.

 

[LCazador]

I did, it says the same thing every where else...1955. What website??? Where exactly are you getting this information??? You have come up with information different than the rest of the world...presumably so you can be "the man". But it's not looking good sir, you have been asked twice now where EXACTLY and you hopped around the answer. Apparently "the man" is not in the know, he's just a fraud trying to make others think he knows something the rest of the world missed.
Winchester maintains it was released in 55, now you say "no, someone else released the 243 WINCHESTER 2 years earlier" or, "the rest of the world is wrong and I alone am correct, it was 53".....okay, no doubt everyone believes you, especially since you back up what you say so well.

I just googled again it and it says 1953. Please yourself and call it 1955 if you wish. I don't think this has any bearing on the post.

 

[msinc]

I just googled again it and it says 1953. Please yourself and call it 1955 if you wish. I don't think this has any bearing on the post.

Well you have hopped around it for the third time...sure you aint catshooter???? or one of those other trolls that were banned and keep coming back as another username??? I google it, it shows {on google specifically} 756,000 results...could you try one more time to tell me exactly by name which "result" you are reading this under?? Last chance to prove you are not a fraud...one more vague, impotent, information-less hop and sir you are dismissed. It positively does not say 53 on the first several pages. Why not get it over with and just post what you are reading???? Unless of course it's not there. I didn't check CNN yet.....

 

[butchlambert]

It doesn't matter to me when it was introduced, but I looked in my 1965 edition of Cartridges of the World and it said it was introduced in 1955 for the Mod 70 and mod 88. My PO Ackley book says the same. That is all I looked at and not on the net.