Misfires at the range today.

[CJ6]

At our normal Friday shoot this morning, one of our group had several misfires (4) with factory Winchester 223 ammo.
He's contacted Winchester with the lot number but hasn't heard back yet.
The ammo was tried in 2 separate 223 rifles that were there. SOLID primer strikes from both but no ignition.
This was WHITE BOX ammo. I'll get the lot number as soon as I can.
He had 4 FTFs out of 17 rounds. I have never seen this many misfires in my life from factory ammo.

 

[tommeboy]

Those use 41 milspec primers so they might not work in a bolt action. Try them in an AR15 and see. If they fire in that then don't buy it anymore

 

[Kevin1990]

Those use 41 milspec primers so they might not work in a bolt action. Try them in an AR15 and see. If they fire in that then don't buy it anymore

450s and 41 have same cup thickness, I don't think that would matter

 

[tommeboy]

450s and 41 have same cup thickness, I don't think that would matter

yes but 41s have a anvil that is spaced farther away so no slam fires.

. That is the difference between the 41 and regular primers.

 

[dellet]

It would be worth checking headspace on both rifles, but the problem is likely short brass. The person with the problem can probably doesn’t reload, but can lay a fired case and a problem case side by side and see a difference in case body length. If someone can measure the problem brass, I wouldn’t be surprised if it is .010” short of minimum spec base the shoulder.

 

[NorCalMikie]

It would be worth checking headspace on both rifles, but the problem is likely "short brass".

If the shooter doesn't or isn't in the position to reload, he's stuck shooting factory loaded ammo.
Might find someone with a bullet puller (hammer) and lengthen the OAL to a jam and see if the rounds go BANG, THAT should tell you a lot!! Not ALL factory loaded ammo is the same.
A jam into the lands holds the case head against the bolt head.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I rarely shoot fmj/AR ammo, is an occasional ftf to be expected regardless of brand? Is it because of lighten trigger springs that many use in their AR's ?

 

[dellet]

I rarely shoot fmj/AR ammo, is an occasional ftf to be expected regardless of brand? Is it because of lighten trigger springs that many use in their AR's ?

I will occasionally buy factory ammo if it’s a new offering, like when a new bullet is introduced. It’s often available as a cartridge before a component. What I have found is rounds that won’t fire after multiple tries in a bolt action, fire easily in an AR. Even with the same reamer used by the same person and headspace gauge.

What’s really interesting is that most AR’s will have less firing pin protrusion than most bolt actions, at least the ones I’ve measured and found specs for. About the only thing I can’t really measure is driving force of the firing pin.

Remember that bolt actions are spring driven, AR’s are hammer driven. If you have a lightened hammer, you need a heavier spring, not lighter. Just like a bullet, heavy moving slow, generally has more energy than light moving fast. The springs and hammers need to be tuned together. A mil spec spring and hammer is certainly over kill for most people, but most people don’t shoot groundhogs in Antarctica after pouring a bucket of sand in the action. Not too many designs have a place you can hammer the action closed, forward assist, and expect the firing pin to do its job. Not exactly a precision tool.

 

[CJ6]

It would be worth checking headspace on both rifles, but the problem is likely short brass. The person with the problem can probably doesn’t reload, but can lay a fired case and a problem case side by side and see a difference in case body length. If someone can measure the problem brass, I wouldn’t be surprised if it is .010” short of minimum spec base the shoulder.

Something to check.

Also primers were brass colored.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I run rem 7.5, CCI 450 or Fed AR match primers in my AR loads. Don't recall having/using Win srp. I have Timmney triggers(3.5 drop in) and lighter hammer springs in lowers, no ftf and I run more bolt clearance (especially in the winter) 0.003-0.0045.

 

[CJ6]

So update..... I have the lot number WLCC223B816-79
The headstamp is LC 223 Rem with NO DATE.
He bought them on Tuesday at a local Farm store.
He's going to drop a couple off so I can measure headspace.

 

[mattri]

Interested in what you find.

 

[CJ6]

Off hand, Does anyone have an idea of the date of manufacture ?

 

[243winxb]

misfires (4) with factory Winchester 223 ammo.
He's contacted Winchester with the lot number but hasn't heard back

Dont waste your time. Buy a different brand. My experence with their defective WSPM primes taught me to avoid Winchester/Olin.

Firing pin velocity is most important. Clean bolts.

 

[CJ6]

It's as much just putting the info on this lot of ammo out there more than anything.

 

[expiper]

Pull the bullets and see if there's any powder in the cartridges... Roger

 

[CJ6]

I'm getting 3 cartridges/cases. 1 untouched, 1 fired , and 1 of the FTF cartridges. I'll check them out.

 

[effendude]

This is mil-spec ammo, surplus to military demand, manufactured at the Lake City plant. CJ6, it will be interesting to hear your findings. I've ran about 400 of these through various AR-15's doing shoots at
my local SCI youth day, never had an issue
Scott

 

[tommeboy]

As I said they have the 41 primers and are NOT meant to be shot in a bolt action. Take those rounds that did not fire and try firing them in an AR15. Then report back. They will fire in the AR15

 

[NorCalMikie]

several misfires (4) with factory Winchester 223 ammo.

That in itself suggests "not all factory ammo is the same".
The FTF rounds? Might try tape across the case head to increase the OAL and make it tighter in the chamber. Not much of a chance that the primers are bad BUT, you never know.
After maybe 3000+ CCI primers fired, NEVER found a bad one. One that got wet laying in the brass overnight got tested and did go FZZZZ.