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minutiae

The post on 2dog's 204 dilemma got me to thinking about how we sometimes get so wrapped up in the minutiae that we forget to look at real world results. I am as guilty of that as is any of us who shoot a lot. I am not satisfied with a varmint rifle that will not group 5 shots into 1/2 inch at 100 yds on a consistent basis.


Which is the beginning of an observation I made about 3 years ago.


Before I get too deep into that let me give a bit of background on how much shooting I do; in my area we have thousands of ground squirrels, which are less than one-half the size of a prairie dog, they are up from mid-March through early-August, it is what you may call a target rich environment. I generally shoot ground squirrels at least three times a week and I also go out of state and shoot PD's for a couple of weeks a year so I put a lot of rounds downrange through the season.


About three years ago I was into an "experimental" stage and took a look at what I was shooting. I had a Rem 700 Sporter 223 with a 4-12 scope on it, a Rem 700 Varminter with a 6-18 scope on it, a Cooper Varminter with a 6.5-20 scope on it. The 700 sporter would keep 5 shots into one-inch, the 700 Varminter would generally keep 5 shots into 3/4 inch, and the Cooper Varminter could be counted on to keep 5 shots into 1/2 inch. Scope power was not a factor since I set them on 10 and don't go over 12 because of mirage issues above that.


Each time I went out I took all three rifles, I would shoot 10 rounds through a rifle then switch to the next rifle, using each rifle I took the targets as they presented themselves which were ranges from 75 to 300 yards. I kept track of the hits and misses by turning the case down for a hit and up for a miss, at the end of the day I would total up my hits and misses by rifles. At the end of the season I totaled up the hits/misses for each rifle and they were virtually identical.


Does it prove anything? To me it proved that sometimes we get so to wrapped up in having to achieve a certain degree of accuracy, needing a certain amount of magnification, or shooting a cartridge with a certain parameter of drift and drop is not necessarily a "have to" thing. Rather it did prove that knowing the trajectory and wind drift of my load was much more important than any drop and wind drift generated from a computer chart.

The gist of this is choose a cartridge you like/enjoy, learn its trajectory and drift and go forth and slay things.


drover
 
The post on 2dog's 204 dilemma got me to thinking about how we sometimes get so wrapped up in the minutiae that we forget to look at real world results. I am as guilty of that as is any of us who shoot a lot. I am not satisfied with a varmint rifle that will not group 5 shots into 1/2 inch at 100 yds on a consistent basis.


Which is the beginning of an observation I made about 3 years ago.


Before I get too deep into that let me give a bit of background on how much shooting I do; in my area we have thousands of ground squirrels, which are less than one-half the size of a prairie dog, they are up from mid-March through early-August, it is what you may call a target rich environment. I generally shoot ground squirrels at least three times a week and I also go out of state and shoot PD's for a couple of weeks a year so I put a lot of rounds downrange through the season.


About three years ago I was into an "experimental" stage and took a look at what I was shooting. I had a Rem 700 Sporter 223 with a 4-12 scope on it, a Rem 700 Varminter with a 6-18 scope on it, a Cooper Varminter with a 6.5-20 scope on it. The 700 sporter would keep 5 shots into one-inch, the 700 Varminter would generally keep 5 shots into 3/4 inch, and the Cooper Varminter could be counted on to keep 5 shots into 1/2 inch. Scope power was not a factor since I set them on 10 and don't go over 12 because of mirage issues above th

Each time I went out I took all three rifles, I would shoot 10 rounds through a rifle then switch to the next rifle, using each rifle I took the targets as they presented themselves which were ranges from 75 to 300 yards. I kept track of the hits and misses by turning the case down for a hit and up for a miss, at the end of the day I would total up my hits and misses by rifles. At the end of the season I totaled up the hits/misses for each rifle and they were virtually identical.


Does it prove anything? To me it proved that sometimes we get so to wrapped up in having to achieve a certain degree of accuracy, needing a certain amount of magnification, or shooting a cartridge with a certain parameter of drift and drop is not necessarily a "have to" thing. Rather it did prove that knowing the trajectory and wind drift of my load was much more important than any drop and wind drift generated from a computer chart.

The gist of this is choose a cartridge you like/enjoy, learn its trajectory and drift and go forth and slay things.


drover
I have a 22x47 that I use for groundhogs and it would only shoot 3/4 inch groups I didn't have time to work up a better load so I took it hunting and I hit just about everything I shot at. I read where a fellow had two 7/08's for silhouette shooting one would group an inch at 200 yards the other would group 2 inches but his scores were about the same with either rifle.
Drags
 
I should have included an update in my post. Both Remingtons are gone and have been replaced by a Cooper Classic (sporter) that shoots as well as my Cooper Varminter.
Even though I proved to myself that as long as a rifle gives reasonable accuracy it doesn't make that much difference at the end of the day, but knowing that it is consistently capable of 5 shot 1/2 inch groups just makes me smile.

drover
 
Both Remingtons are gone and have been replaced by a Cooper Classic (sporter) that shoots as well as my Cooper Varminter.

How many rounds down the tubes on your Coopers? I tend to take rifles that I am willing to put the heavy use on. I am not the original purchaser on my Coopers, so I don't get the price break on rebarrels.
 
I am on the 3rd barrel on my Varminter, I have noticed that at about 8000 rounds groups start to open up to around 3/4 inch, which is still more than acceptable for PD's and ground squirrels. I just like a bit smaller groups. At that point I have them rebarreled, I am the original purchaser and have gotten the lower price. Even at their regular rebarrel price the job is still a bargain compared to having it done anywhere else, and the new barrel comes with the accuracy guarantee which makes having them do it a no brainer.

I only have around 3000 rounds through my Classic and it is still shooting sub-1/2" so I have not had a rebarrel on it.

I buy my rifles to use but do not abuse them, I try not to shoot more than 10 fast-paced rounds through the Varminter before giving it a cooling period. I try to limit the Classic to 5 fast-paced rounds before cooling but sometime my will power weakens and I will shoot a few more through it before cooling.

I do take another back-up 223 though just in case the shooting gets hot and heavy. It is a Tikka T-3 and it a very good shooter also, although it is more like a 3/4" for 5 shots.

I look at barrels as consumables just like bullets, primers, and powder. If you figure the cost of shooting 8000 rounds at .20 cents per round it will have cost $1600 on components alone, so the barrel is a relatively insignificant part of the equation.

drover
 
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Excellent post. I do like to have my varmint rifles group in the 1/2 moa range since ghogs are a tiny target in the field where you don't always have a perfect profile for a shot. However, your point is well taken.

What I've learn in nearly 50 years of shooting and hunting is that developing practical field shooting skills is the most critical element of success. Of course you have to have a reasonably accurate rifle / scope combo to hit the vitals but you don't need a bench rest - "tack driver" rifle either.

I'm a avid (addicted) varmint hunter. One of the most successful varmint hunters I never knew used a 222 Rem 700 with a 12X fixed power Leupold scope. He was a tremendous hunter and field shot using a cross sticks as a shooting aid and taught me how to shoot in the field.

I saw it when I competed in bulls eye pistol competition - the focus on equipment rather than mastering shooting skills.
 
A little graphic I worked up a ways back that kinda reinforces your point. Assuming you click for 300yards, but the target is at 310 and that the wind was 10mph but you thought it was only 8mph, here's how it plays out with 4 different cartridges on a 4 inch target:
DropnDrift.JPG
Can't really buy enough horsepower to over come bad wind and distance calls. Even a mighty 6.5 SAUM shooting 147ELD at 3300fps only cuts an inch off of the tiny little 20 Vartarg shooting 40Vmaxes at 3400fps. Cost difference between them is about $0.50 per shot in the bullet and extra powder.
 
I agree with what you are saying Mr. Drover, if you are going to hunt and shoot then do it, if you are going to sit around and worry about guns and ammo and scopes and reloads then sit and do that. That said, and this is just me, I have gotten to where I shoot my best when I have a rifle in my hands that is as accurate as it can be. I know it is a mental thing, I have killed a lot of game with rifles that weren't so accurate. But, for me, if I feel like a rifle should shoot 1/4 minute and it doesn't then I am not comfortable. It's not that I am worried about using it and missing, I don't need any help to do plenty of missing with 1/4 minute rifles!!! I don't know, it's more like I cant stand for something to not be right.
These days, when I get a rifle that shoots the way I want it to.....it is not going anywhere. We don't have ground squirrels around here, well, we got plenty of human ones....but I cant legally shoot them {much as I'd like to!!!}. The animal that takes the brunt of my frustration is the woodchuck. You definitely don't need a 1/4 minute weapon to hit one, in fact a 2" grouper will work just fine, but that's not the point.
I build all my own rifles, so they have to be "right" or I just cant enjoy them. I have one right now that is going to be rebarreled because I am not satisfied with it.
 
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Great post. I agree in that we all try to shoot as small a group as possible even when its not needed. It sure does put a smile on my face though, when I can pick a spot on a small critter and know that is where the bullet will impact. I like my Coopers, but like "jepp2", I tend to baby them to much. When it comes to hard use I take my Savages. The Savages shoot as good but just don't look or feel as good in my hands, I don't mean that in a negative way, just my opinion.
 
Drover: Very good points and you have it correct. Often we get to wrapped up in super small groups and it sort of spoils the fun we have by just sitting down with one or two of our accurate rifles and having fun, rather than start zeroing in on groups.
 
A little graphic I worked up a ways back that kinda reinforces your point. Assuming you click for 300yards, but the target is at 310 and that the wind was 10mph but you thought it was only 8mph, here's how it plays out with 4 different cartridges on a 4 inch target:
View attachment 1100028
Can't really buy enough horsepower to over come bad wind and distance calls. Even a mighty 6.5 SAUM shooting 147ELD at 3300fps only cuts an inch off of the tiny little 20 Vartarg shooting 40Vmaxes at 3400fps. Cost difference between them is about $0.50 per shot in the bullet and extra powder.

A great graphic example.
It certainly adds credence to the old saying - " A picture is worth a thousand words".
 
A little graphic I worked up a ways back that kinda reinforces your point. Assuming you click for 300yards, but the target is at 310 and that the wind was 10mph but you thought it was only 8mph, here's how it plays out with 4 different cartridges on a 4 inch target:
View attachment 1100028
Can't really buy enough horsepower to over come bad wind and distance calls. Even a mighty 6.5 SAUM shooting 147ELD at 3300fps only cuts an inch off of the tiny little 20 Vartarg shooting 40Vmaxes at 3400fps. Cost difference between them is about $0.50 per shot in the bullet and extra powder.

Great...now I want a 20 vartarg

What bullet and velocity did you have for the 6br and 22-250?
 
Great...now I want a 20 vartarg

What bullet and velocity did you have for the 6br and 22-250?
Do it! Best thing I've ever shot. If you really want temptation, I've got a thread with results from my 20VT built by Jim Borden on a rimrock. 0.44" group at 300 yards.

108ELD at 2850 for the 6br, 55 vmax at 3500 for the 22-250 (what I shoot mine at for best accuracy and good barrel life). And the vartarg might be a 40 at 3500, now I think about it, have to check my notes.
 

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