Mid-Range Shooting

[243Mendoza]

Guy, your memory isn't failing you,yet)
We have some *C-2* targets up in the club house if you want to give 'em a swing,300yd UIT target reduced for 200yds). Nasty, nasty looking things. I imagine they separate the men from the boys right quick like!
Monte

Monte, as you know, the new F-Class targets are even more difficult than the centerfire UIT targets.

 

[memilanuk]

The X-ring, sure. I don't think the 7, 8, 9 ring are quite as murderous. Hey, I don't always manage to stick 'em in the middle, so I gotta consider that!

 

[mysticplayer]

Here are my thoughts as I do quite alot of shooting at and beyond these ranges.

I started shooting CF with a 222 Rem 700 Classic,never should have sold it). Shot a true 1/2 MOA at 200yds. Just a lovely rifle. Never took it further then 350yds as it got bounced around in the wind as I was using 50/52gr varmint bullets.

As was said, velocity will not solve your wind drift woes. I had a wonderfully accurate Rem700 in 22/250 pushing 52gr MK's at the expected velocities. At ranges beyond 500yds, it was like hitting a wall.

Pin point accuracy would become spray and pray. By 800yds, hitting anything smaller then a 2MOA boulder was more luck then skill when the wind picked up.

With new gen bullets like the 75 and 80gr Amax, this would be a wonderful cartridge.

I followed that rifle with a 6BR with slow twist. The 87gr Vmax was the best that would stabilize. Man what a difference BC makes in hitting. An accurate rifle and cartridge don't hurt either. Hitting clays out to 800yds was simply a function of doping the winds. Was my first rifle built on a CIL,old Savage 110) action. There were no trigger options at the time so sold it cause the heavy pull was driving me nuts.

For a low recoiling, superbly accurate cartridge/load, I can strongly recommend this combo. Might not be ideal vs all the very high BC bullets but it works for varminting and general plinking way out there. A very strong contender for shorter ranges in F class.

I then progessed to much larger cals and cartridges. All work but get expensive and noisy,brakes required to keep from dislocating shoulders).

I am now going 'smaller' again. The 6.5 Mystic is my idea of a better mousetrap for LR F class. Would work in tactical, plinking, whatever. Relatively low recoil, high BC, reasonably priced to shoot.

This is my one gun/one load set up for F class from 300m to 1000m. I feel a better choice to the 6.5-284.

My 7 Mystic and 180gr Bergers is fast becoming a favorite for 1km shooting. Man, those bullets shoot well. Again, superb in the wind. The 162gr Amax is no slouch but the bergers are just better.

A bit much in recoil, barrel heat/wear, and costs for high volume plinking but for a dual target/hunting rifle, I am very pleased.

Now that I have shot all the major cals, I am going back to my roots and playing with the 223 in a bolt rifle. With the new 75 and 80gr Amax, this has opened up a whole new world of light recoiling, low cost, reasonable wind bucking fun.

For 600yds and in, I can't think of a nicer, more readily available combo. I own a Stevens 200 in 223 and have used it effective at 1km. What a hoot this rifle is,SSS trigger). Accurate, light, makes for a great walkabout varminter and clay buster. I have a Pac nor HB for it to try and max accuracy way out there. Results have been very promising.

I have recommended the Savage HB in 223 to many shooter wanting to enter the moderate range game. Ballistics mimic the 308 with 1/3 the recoil and half the cost. Best part for me is you can shoot alot more before your barrel overheats.

If a shooter wants to use factory ammo or doesn't want to get too technical in tools or reloading costs, the 223 with 75gr Amax is my number one choice now.

The 6BR is next. Of course, all the other variants are included.

From there, I prefer the larger 6.5 Mystic,260AI variant) as I feel it offers a tangible benefit over the moderately large case 6mm,very hard to get new gen bullets up in Canada and ultimately we will be using 243's and variants).

The smallest dual purpose rd I have is the 7 Mystic,280AI variant) and have no issue shooting game within what my Leica 800 can range.

The magnums are next but that is alot of boom, cost and recoil. More then needed for these moderate ranges.

I have skipped the 308 simply because I think the 223 is a better choice/same ballistics. I hate recoil and if I am going to get smacked a bit, I want more ballistics prowess. 7-08, 260R, 243 would all do much better.

Does this answer your question?

Jerry

 

[JER]

Guy, your memory isn't failing you,yet)
We have some *C-2* targets up in the club house if you want to give 'em a swing,300yd UIT target reduced for 200yds). Nasty, nasty looking things. I imagine they separate the men from the boys right quick like!
Monte

Monte, as you know, the new F-Class targets are even more difficult than the centerfire UIT targets.

The X ring is about the same, from there on out, the ISSF targets are much harder.

And ISSF does not allow bipods, benchrests, or scopes.

ETA: I did the math on both the MR-63FC and the ISSF 300 M. It turns out that while I was wrong about the rings being much smaller on the ISSF target, the level of difficulty with 300 meter shooting is still significantly higher than F class at 300 yards due to the fact that ISSF does not allow scopes or rests.

 

[ConnorExum]

Here are my thoughts as I do quite alot of shooting at and beyond these ranges.

I started shooting CF with a 222 Rem 700 Classic,never should have sold it). Shot a true 1/2 MOA at 200yds. Just a lovely rifle. Never took it further then 350yds as it got bounced around in the wind as I was using 50/52gr varmint bullets.

As was said, velocity will not solve your wind drift woes. I had a wonderfully accurate Rem700 in 22/250 pushing 52gr MK's at the expected velocities. At ranges beyond 500yds, it was like hitting a wall.

Pin point accuracy would become spray and pray. By 800yds, hitting anything smaller then a 2MOA boulder was more luck then skill when the wind picked up.

With new gen bullets like the 75 and 80gr Amax, this would be a wonderful cartridge.

I followed that rifle with a 6BR with slow twist. The 87gr Vmax was the best that would stabilize. Man what a difference BC makes in hitting. An accurate rifle and cartridge don't hurt either. Hitting clays out to 800yds was simply a function of doping the winds. Was my first rifle built on a CIL,old Savage 110) action. There were no trigger options at the time so sold it cause the heavy pull was driving me nuts.

For a low recoiling, superbly accurate cartridge/load, I can strongly recommend this combo. Might not be ideal vs all the very high BC bullets but it works for varminting and general plinking way out there. A very strong contender for shorter ranges in F class.

I then progessed to much larger cals and cartridges. All work but get expensive and noisy,brakes required to keep from dislocating shoulders).

I am now going 'smaller' again. The 6.5 Mystic is my idea of a better mousetrap for LR F class. Would work in tactical, plinking, whatever. Relatively low recoil, high BC, reasonably priced to shoot.

This is my one gun/one load set up for F class from 300m to 1000m. I feel a better choice to the 6.5-284.

My 7 Mystic and 180gr Bergers is fast becoming a favorite for 1km shooting. Man, those bullets shoot well. Again, superb in the wind. The 162gr Amax is no slouch but the bergers are just better.

A bit much in recoil, barrel heat/wear, and costs for high volume plinking but for a dual target/hunting rifle, I am very pleased.

Now that I have shot all the major cals, I am going back to my roots and playing with the 223 in a bolt rifle. With the new 75 and 80gr Amax, this has opened up a whole new world of light recoiling, low cost, reasonable wind bucking fun.

For 600yds and in, I can't think of a nicer, more readily available combo. I own a Stevens 200 in 223 and have used it effective at 1km. What a hoot this rifle is,SSS trigger). Accurate, light, makes for a great walkabout varminter and clay buster. I have a Pac nor HB for it to try and max accuracy way out there. Results have been very promising.

I have recommended the Savage HB in 223 to many shooter wanting to enter the moderate range game. Ballistics mimic the 308 with 1/3 the recoil and half the cost. Best part for me is you can shoot alot more before your barrel overheats.

If a shooter wants to use factory ammo or doesn't want to get too technical in tools or reloading costs, the 223 with 75gr Amax is my number one choice now.

The 6BR is next. Of course, all the other variants are included.

From there, I prefer the larger 6.5 Mystic,260AI variant) as I feel it offers a tangible benefit over the moderately large case 6mm,very hard to get new gen bullets up in Canada and ultimately we will be using 243's and variants).

The smallest dual purpose rd I have is the 7 Mystic,280AI variant) and have no issue shooting game within what my Leica 800 can range.

The magnums are next but that is alot of boom, cost and recoil. More then needed for these moderate ranges.

I have skipped the 308 simply because I think the 223 is a better choice/same ballistics. I hate recoil and if I am going to get smacked a bit, I want more ballistics prowess. 7-08, 260R, 243 would all do much better.

Does this answer your question?

Jerry

I would add the 6.5x55 Swede to your list as well. It has about the same recoil as the 30-06 with a 168grain bullet and can do lot more for your at 1000 yards than the 30-06 will do while not being as hard on the barrels as the 6.5-284... Plus cannot you get the Lapua scenars more readily than the American bullets?

 

[ConnorExum]

I think the perfect mid range cartridge is the 243AI. What more could you want from a cartridge accurate,with enough powder capcity to drive the 115-117grain bullets at 3000+FPS accurately. If you want to go 105-108 range you still can drive them even faster. The recoil is less than a 308. The Barrel life is questionable but given that you have the same or better deflection as a 6.5-284 with less recoil I cannot see what isn't to like about the 243AI actually for 300-800yard shooting.

 

[mysticplayer]

ConnorExum, my list covers rifles I have actually used. I have used many -06/Gibbs and 308's but they are not my favorites due to high recoil vs low ballistics.

I skipped the 6.5 Swede because it is a tween length, harder for me to get brass then 308W, likely more case growth vs a 40deg sharp shoulder, much more expensive brass.

Case volume of my 6.5 Mystic is nearly the same as the 6.5 Swede and performance is pretty much the same. The 6.5 Mystic will run through most short action mags where a Swede may not.

It was the ease of getting parts and long brass life that clinched the deal for me when I was designing this wildcat.

I have also avoided the 243 and wildcats because of bullet availability. Lapua is not always available here but Tubbs stuff has zero availability. Plus, without the proper powder, the 243 and AI can toast a barrel very quickly - as bad or worse then a 6.5-284. Not good.

The 6XL, 6 - 6.5L, 6-22/250AI wildcats I like but again, bullets are just not available and ballistics still favor the 6.5.

For what I can get readily, the 6BR/BRX and Dasher make the most sense.

I wish we had better access to all the great toys down south but...

Jerry

 

[ConnorExum]

ConnorExum, my list covers rifles I have actually used. I have used many -06/Gibbs and 308's but they are not my favorites due to high recoil vs low ballistics.

I skipped the 6.5 Swede because it is a tween length, harder for me to get brass then 308W, likely more case growth vs a 40deg sharp shoulder, much more expensive brass.

Case volume of my 6.5 Mystic is nearly the same as the 6.5 Swede and performance is pretty much the same. The 6.5 Mystic will run through most short action mags where a Swede may not.

It was the ease of getting parts and long brass life that clinched the deal for me when I was designing this wildcat.

I have also avoided the 243 and wildcats because of bullet availability. Lapua is not always available here but Tubbs stuff has zero availability. Plus, without the proper powder, the 243 and AI can toast a barrel very quickly - as bad or worse then a 6.5-284. Not good.

The 6XL, 6 - 6.5L, 6-22/250AI wildcats I like but again, bullets are just not available and ballistics still favor the 6.5.

For what I can get readily, the 6BR/BRX and Dasher make the most sense.

I wish we had better access to all the great toys down south but...

Jerry

Really, I figured the more european the resources the more likely you'd have access to them... I'm surprised about this fact. So why is it so hard to get shooting supplies in Canada anyway?

Connor

 

[mysticplayer]

ConnorExum, by comparison, the Canadian market is a drop in the bucket. Few Canadian companies have the scale to import directly from Europe. Not always favorable to export to the US from us either.

Most everything is first landed in the US, then exported back into Canada.

As to difficulty acquiring stuff, you can ask BUSH about that.

About the only plus we have is in Norinco stuff. There are some really nice knock offs that are actually very well made at dirt cheap pricing. Again, the scale of importation is relatively small because most cannot be exported to the US markets.

Our sport is being held hostage by Global concerns/issues.

Jerry

 

[JER]

As to difficulty acquiring stuff, you can ask BUSH about that.

Maybe he should ask his representatives in Congress, since they are the one who MAKE law in the US; not the President.