Methods to sizing 6br

[Webster]

I know this post would be universal to about any caliber but I am going to specifically say 6br because that's what I load the most. The reasoning for the post is I have been waiting multiple videos of well known and very successful shooter from BSWN and their sizing techniques.

First off I want to say I'm still relatively new in the shooting community and have been mentored into using a body die to bump the shoulders back and to neck size. So far the results have been fantastic (for me). But I was kind of shocked when I heard all of these interviews saying they only FL size, they never neck size. So my question is why may that be? And what have you all found success with. Also not for my example these cases only have 3 firings on them.

Just got back from the range. I shot 25 rounds without any sizing. Fired cases, primed, powder, bullet. Nice groups. I was firing 6BRX cases after the first fire forming. Never did this before. Been reloading since 1968. As long as a fired case can be chambered easily it should be a perfect fit to your chamber and not a general purpose die. No control over neck tension. If you go to the Redding website they say something about the standard non-bushing dies may size a neck 6-8 thou to much. I know my non bushing die makes the necks way to small. I will continue sizing with my bushing die to control neck diameter. I was shocked a month ago shooting my favorite load in a 6BR. I thought I would try different COAL because of barrel erosion. Tried 3 COAL couldn't believe the difference in group size.

 

[BoydAllen]

If you remove the bushing from a bushing FL die, the sizing that is done with that configuration is the same as you would get with a body die. Some people make this way too complicated. If you shoot light enough loads, you can go quite a while neck sizing. For informal target shooting at short distances this can be satisfactory.

Competition shooters use dies that are correctly dimensioned for their chambers and they want to get the most performance that they can, with accuracy, when shooting at longer yardages. This means that they load to pressures that will not work well for neck sizing.

Even though cases are from the same lot, and are fired with the same load the same number of times they will not all get tight after the same number of firings. If you happen to test a case that is not tight and decide to neck size your cases, and some of them ARE tight, your groups with mixed tight and not tight will be larger than if they were all tight or all not.

Many times fellows try to avoid using a FL die because they have no experience with a FL die that only slightly reduces the case from its as fired dimensions. Properly fitting dies are a completely different situation. The brass fits the chamber after sizing, and concentricity and neck tension are good. Necks are not worked excessively. This is in sharp contrast to what you get when using a typical one piece FL die to size brass that was fired in a factory chamber. If posters do not explain the details, we can be talking about apples and oranges.

A good first step is to measure a fired case, neck, shoulder and end of die and chamber contact diameters., pull the decapping stem and then size the case with the die set for a proper shoulder bump and measure that case. By comparing the two sets of dimensions you will learn what your die is doing to your brass.

 

[Shynloco]

Cory,
Big +1 on Boyd's and Webster's comments. If it's working for you and you are happy with the accuracy, don't try and fix it cause it ain't broken. Personally I shoot a Savage Model 12 BR rifle that I've had going on 6 years. And from day one, I bought a Redding "S" die (Bushing FL Die) and that has worked wonders. I lightly turned my brass just to clean it up and anneal every third shooting to make sure that difference in case hardening (that Boyd speaks about) doesn't happen. And I'm on #36 reloading on this same group of 40 casings. Now I do have a custom chamber but the die is not. I just use the Bushing size that matches my reamer dimensions. Yet I rarely shoot 5 shot groups that are larger than .300 @ 100 yds and that only when I'm not using Bart 68 gr bullets and VVN133 to push them. Your comp die is fine and requires but one pass and you are good to go.

Alex

 

[mikecr]

That is impossible, I have said over and over the shoulder of a case can not be moved back with a die that does not have case body support.

Folks, don't yell at me for feeding the monkey, but I gotta answer this..
fguffey, I never said anything about not supporting cases with bumping. And you need to understand that 'supporting' is NOT sizing. I do support the body with a squeezing that is not so much as to cause yielding. Without yielding, there is no sizing.
With this, I routinely bump shoulders with zero body sizing.
If your assertion is that this is impossible, you're wrong.

A while back it was suggested that JLC only provides body dies that size bodies. This is not true.
Jim produces dies that size cases provided by the customer. Normally, these cases would have been fire formed to slight bolt closure resistance. I send cases used in finding MyMax powder loads, which have yielded to both difficult bolt turn(headspace) and popping extraction(web growth). But these are not cases I use.
My cases are stable at smaller dimensions. So again, my dies squeeze a bit, but do not size the bodies.

I know that skipping body sizing is not for everyone, nor the majority. But it is not impossible, and with the right plan, there is nothing but benefit in it. For one, the matched H20 capacity of my cases does not change with every trimming -because I don't have to trim.
I don't ever, and I mean ever, have to toss Lapua cases due to expanding primer pockets. This is not because of light loads, but because I've gently taken cases across a rational clearance to chamber and spring back, during fire forming, and this is the last yielding those case bodies ever endure. Once webs are at chamber minus spring back, with the right chamber support and breech support for load, they will continue to spring back to that stable dimension with no further yielding.
It just takes a plan, and don't bother with something like a 30-06. Begin with a better reloading design(across the board). Something like a 6.5x47L, 260AI, 6Dasher, 223Rem, etc. Set your chamber dimensions off NEW brass.
Go much bigger, and you better have a really large barrel tenon, and coned bolt, or the chamber itself will expand beyond brass yield, and eventually snap back into interference fitting(popping extraction). Then you'll have to continually size near webs, and eventually pockets will open. Your choices(not mine), lead to this.

 

[BoydAllen]

I would have to disagree with much of that. I have written in the field of competition benchrest on and off for a number of years, and know many record holders and several hall of fame members. They shoot better than we do. I have tried numerous approaches and talked with others that have as well. I have experience with hot loads and light loads. IMO following your advice will cause shooters problems. I am also well acquainted with top thousand yard shooters including current record holders and they do not do what you describe.

 

[fguffey]

Folks, don't yell at me for feeding the monkey, but I gotta answer this..
fguffey,

The body die I use with my 6br does not size bodies. It bumps shoulders only.

You also claimed you were bumping the shoulder, and again I said that is not possible. To bump a case the reloader must have a cam over press, again, RCBS says a cam over press is a bump press, they also say a press that is not a cam over press is not a bump press.

Again;

The body die I use with my 6br does not size bodies. It bumps shoulders only

I quoted you, it seems you are just making this stuff up. And now you have a 'squeeze' die'? I am the only reloader than can move a shoulder back on a case, I can not move the shoulder back on a case with a die that has case body support or with a die that has 'squeezum'.

The seating die does not have case body support, the seating die does not support the shoulder or case body, It is possible to move the shoulder back on a case with a seating die but! because the die does not have case support moving the shoulder back will upset/bulge the case below the case body/shoulder juncture. For the few that can keep up that is the reason I can not move the shoulder back on a case without with case body/shoulder support.

Years ago I made a seater, it was not a seater die because the seater I made did not have a die body. I sent one to a member of several forums, he had it evaluated, he said it was commercial enough to sell. It worked because it supported the neck and shoulder with absolute precision with alignment between the bullet and neck.

Folks, don't yell at me for feeding the monkey, but I gotta answer this..

You gotta die with squeezum?

F. Guffey

 

[joshb]

Hmmm. I just bought a seater die that has case body support.?. Bonanza maybe? I'm away from home and can't remember. Has an inner sleeve for the cartridge to fit in as the bullet gets pushed into the case. Has a little springy thing that pushes against the sleeve as it goes up and down. Very entertaining to use. I guess they don't sell them where you are. I would love to see some diagrams and drawings to support your theories. Please. I'm here to learn. Thank you.

 

[mikecr]

Y'all can believe what ya like. Others here can reason & see for themselves.
This would go the same as it did for all the experts that claimed(for decades), that VLDs had to be jammed to shoot.....

 

[GSPV]

Random thoughts (very random...cut me some slack, I'm bushed):

I have two kinds of solutions. The first is custom FL dies made for me based on brass fired several times in my chamber and the reamer print. The second is a Redding FL die where the reamer was made to fit. Both work. The point being to do a very minimal FL resize. This many thou on this part of the case, that many thou on this other part.

I need that bolt to open easily and I need it to close easily...and consistently. I'd rather have a hair too much bump and have the bolt handle (stripped bolt) drop on all of the cases than have it drop almost the bottom on some and be up at 1:00-2:00 on others.

I also prefer to shoot with a hair of jam vice jump so that the round is suspended in the chamber in all dimensions.

Under no circumstances will I tolerate bolt click on extraction. Life is far too short to put up with a die that doesn't match your chamber.