The local trap club has allowed me to put in a rifle range. I have put up a target holder for paper targets but thought a metal gong would give people something to shoot at if they did not bring a paper target. This is a small town range open to anyone at any time kind of thing. How safe is a metal gong at 100 and 200 yards? Is there any danger of ricochet? Do you hang them angled down? How thick? Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Metal Gongs?
- Thread starter Waskawood
- Start date
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
I would put them at 200, and just make some bigger if you want to make them easier. We made one of 1"T1 years ago. Where you get into trouble, with one at shorter range is when a high velocity round hits in a crater from a previous hit, especially in mild steel that is thick enough not to pierce. You would be amazed at how far back a bullet can come. There is a video, on You Tube, of a .50 cal being shot, where this happens. The shooter was lucky not to have been killed. If I remember correctly, the shot hit his earmuff hard.
Steel target = ricochet.....even if you angle the plate ,what happens if you catch the edge, or hit the metal used in the hanging system. Once you set a precedent of using steel targets, you'll get others bringing their own steel targets ...of which you'll have no control of how they set them up. You'll have enough work maintaining the range in respectable order just with paper target backstops. No matter how well you post the rules, or define the allowable target space, some insist on posting the targets on the supporting posts instead of the backers.
Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine.
Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine.
We have two heavy metal gongs at 200 yards and unless you shoot them with something like a 30-06 you can't even tell if you hit them. Some guys will bring white spray paint and that allows you to see hits until they are all marked up. May as well shot at paper targets than spray paint them each time.
Sucks the shooters are so disrespectful that they shoot the target hangers. Never understood why someone would dilbertly do that.
Sucks the shooters are so disrespectful that they shoot the target hangers. Never understood why someone would dilbertly do that.
Good day sir, we shoot gongs a lot, with no problems.You need to make your gong from armoured steel, else most calibres just zip through.Next attach the gong to a strip of conveyor belt and suspend from a frame, almost like a set of hurdles.This allows the gong to sway and deflects all shrapnel safely to the ground,we shoot a gong with a 4inch radius or 8inch across.Unfortunately, objects placed down range oftn get sgot, so expect sone misses to hit your frame occasionally.Regards
Peter
Peter
I have all but stopped shooting at paper. Sure it is great to tell you exactly what you are doing but after you have a good load and sight setting what is the reason? Sure bench rest but that is only so much fun. I recently bought 16sq feet of .5” AR500 steel. At 200yds your bigger guns will remove a small amount of steel. The 223 with 55gr ball will also remove some steel at 100yds. My 44mag at 25yds with full power charges will make dents in that steel.
I have never had a bullet bounce off of a target. Any part of the bullet that hits the steel will just splatter like a water balloon tossed on the ground. If you get a partial hit that remainder will not go very far. If it is an issue then shooting there is not a good idea for this reason. If a guy gets one or two revolutions off on their scope and shoot at 200yds that round will be very high and probably miss the berm.
The splatter from regular core impacting bullets will make the bullet into dust and sand size pieces. These little pieces will dig a nice little trench into the ground. Other than that those pieces do not make it very far at all. There are plenty of videos on YouTube that show this.
This video shows a bunch of impacts the one at 1:48 is what happens when you use a regular bullet and hard steel. This vid has plenty of impacts with everything from regular bullets and soft steel to AP and hard steel. When you shoot a soft bullet into soft steel you get a big hole or a real big crater.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfDoQwIAaXg
Personally there is nothing wrong with shooting steel as long as you know what you are doing. Like that 50bmg vid. He was shooting it at relative close range for a 50 and then shooting a AP at it. When it is your steel you will make sure you are not doing damage to it. Others will see that steel and bring out super mag or black tip ammo just to see what will happen.
For the uprights I do not know if you are doing this or not. If you sink a biger pipe into the ground you can just drop the pole into the pipe and then pull it out when you are done. Here in my part of ND it is the cops and shotgun shooters who do most of the damage.
I have never had a bullet bounce off of a target. Any part of the bullet that hits the steel will just splatter like a water balloon tossed on the ground. If you get a partial hit that remainder will not go very far. If it is an issue then shooting there is not a good idea for this reason. If a guy gets one or two revolutions off on their scope and shoot at 200yds that round will be very high and probably miss the berm.
The splatter from regular core impacting bullets will make the bullet into dust and sand size pieces. These little pieces will dig a nice little trench into the ground. Other than that those pieces do not make it very far at all. There are plenty of videos on YouTube that show this.
This video shows a bunch of impacts the one at 1:48 is what happens when you use a regular bullet and hard steel. This vid has plenty of impacts with everything from regular bullets and soft steel to AP and hard steel. When you shoot a soft bullet into soft steel you get a big hole or a real big crater.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfDoQwIAaXg
Personally there is nothing wrong with shooting steel as long as you know what you are doing. Like that 50bmg vid. He was shooting it at relative close range for a 50 and then shooting a AP at it. When it is your steel you will make sure you are not doing damage to it. Others will see that steel and bring out super mag or black tip ammo just to see what will happen.
For the uprights I do not know if you are doing this or not. If you sink a biger pipe into the ground you can just drop the pole into the pipe and then pull it out when you are done. Here in my part of ND it is the cops and shotgun shooters who do most of the damage.
woooooow that was a lucky guy.bet you that he would never say that he had to go and change his boxers.but glade hes alive.
yes paper is the best thing to shoot at up to 400-500 yards.after that steel.is nice so that you can see/hear the hit.but only as someone has already said.able to swing so the bullet can some what stay in the same way of travel to the ground/dirt bank.
and to answer another question some one else asked.they do it to just see if they can.took a young guy one time to the range with me.he says look there is a dragon fly on top of the post at 100.lets see if we can hit it.I said no.thats the way people get hurt/killed.even the way to tear up the back boads post.and if people like you do that all the time we want be able to use the range again.so I have yet took him back.
yes paper is the best thing to shoot at up to 400-500 yards.after that steel.is nice so that you can see/hear the hit.but only as someone has already said.able to swing so the bullet can some what stay in the same way of travel to the ground/dirt bank.
and to answer another question some one else asked.they do it to just see if they can.took a young guy one time to the range with me.he says look there is a dragon fly on top of the post at 100.lets see if we can hit it.I said no.thats the way people get hurt/killed.even the way to tear up the back boads post.and if people like you do that all the time we want be able to use the range again.so I have yet took him back.
people said:
I question your claims about NEVER ricocheting to any substantial distance......how would one verify that statement......how does one track where that bullet or pieces of bullet have ultimately gone.
You have made my point that a steel gong at an unsupervised 100/200 yards club range is a bad idea..... your quote : "there is nothing wrong with shooting at steel if you know what you are doing."
Remember what happened to Ralphie?....."you'll shoot your eye out kid"
I use several different sized 3/8 AR plates for different distances on private range. We weld a bracket to accept a 2x4 horizontally on a short piece of exhaust pipe tubing. Those slip over the top of a T-post. Gongs are then hung from the 2x4s so they can freely swing. I've used rubber tie down straps, cheap twisted nylon rope, #9 wire, cheap twisted chain etc as hangers. Everything eventually gets chewed up by the frags. The 12 inch round gong has been shot for 4 years with everything up to 30/378 with little dimples but no holes. Once in a while I'll reverse it when hung, otherwise it slowly develops a very slight bow on the back side.
I doubt anything of any size comes off the steel , but we are so far out in the country we hunt Towards town so nothing is at risk that we don't own. The ground under the hangers gets hosed, as does the 2x4s and the sides of the t posts. I wouldn't want to be anywhere to the left or right of the steel. Who knows how far that stuff goes?
I doubt anything of any size comes off the steel , but we are so far out in the country we hunt Towards town so nothing is at risk that we don't own. The ground under the hangers gets hosed, as does the 2x4s and the sides of the t posts. I wouldn't want to be anywhere to the left or right of the steel. Who knows how far that stuff goes?
Your reasons for not leaving steel for everyone to shoot are faulty. It is the cost of replacement I was referring to with that being said I agree with you in he should not put steel plates in. You will always get the jerk who will want to shoot his 300 RUM on steel at 100 or 200. This “Hunter” will do so much damage to your steel it is not funny. Then you have the guys who have a few AP rounds stashed away and will want to see what will happen. It is the standard “Will this go through?” question.
The part about knowing what you are doing. Is you never shoot steel at close range (hand gun distance) with a rifle with regular bullets and AP. Frangible bullets are good and that is what they were designed for. Handguns you can get closer if you are still using hard steel. When bullets hit they splatter in a radial pattern. AP will not be safe also very hard on steel. The base of bullets with thick copper can be found a foot or two from the bottom of the target on the ground. After shooting some 140gr Barns X bullets from a 7mm STW on my steel at 400yds I found was a nice dent in my steel and massive amounts of dirt removed from the bottom sides of the target. The amount of dirt removed was far more than my standard 140gr BT load. My target sits on the ground on a tip back flange. Granted you can not fix stupid. You shoot steel at very close range and you can get hurt. Almost all of us here steel at 200yds is not needed as we have rifles that shoot so good at those distances you can hammer the same spot every time and not get anything out of it. Now with our rifles that do not shoot so well or just plinking steel can be very fun and safe if you are not a idiot.
I am not a bench rest shooter (taking the bolt out is stupid in my book) for many reasons but the main reason is when is a target in real life at 100, 200, 600, 800, or 1000? Almost never. So I need something I can see my hits on and can set someplace and then shoot at it from many different locations. I put many thousands of rounds down range every year almost all of them at steel. I know what bullets do when they hit steel. They splatter. The haters who do not like steel shooting will never understand until they go and shoot steel also.
That guy with the 50 he is very lucky. Shooting AP at steel that is just asking for it. Now if he was using lead that would not have happened.
So why will there be more work involved in keeping the range in a respectable order with steel being used? At the few local ranges I visit it seems like the regular hunters and paper punchers are the source of most of the trash. They are the ones who like to bring out other trash to shoot at. All the steel shooters I know take their steel with them when they go.
As to catching an edge comment. The part of the bullet that was not destroyed by the steel can go a ways. After my time in the USMC shooting and watching shooting bouncing bullets never really make it that far. We were shooting the M2 one day and we were just shooting at tire piles (to simulate people) the bullets would pass through the target and make it quite some distance. With that being said I fired a burst well over the targets and those bullets made it so much farther than the bouncing bullets ever thought they could make it. I was maybe giving them a 15 degree angle. That is more angle than needed to get over any berm I have ever seen. Also hitting the supporting stand if it is metal the bullets will just splatter on them if they are made from steel. If it is soft they will dig in and cause a hole or dent. In any case the bullet is destroyed.
Enough of this I am going shooting at steel.
The part about knowing what you are doing. Is you never shoot steel at close range (hand gun distance) with a rifle with regular bullets and AP. Frangible bullets are good and that is what they were designed for. Handguns you can get closer if you are still using hard steel. When bullets hit they splatter in a radial pattern. AP will not be safe also very hard on steel. The base of bullets with thick copper can be found a foot or two from the bottom of the target on the ground. After shooting some 140gr Barns X bullets from a 7mm STW on my steel at 400yds I found was a nice dent in my steel and massive amounts of dirt removed from the bottom sides of the target. The amount of dirt removed was far more than my standard 140gr BT load. My target sits on the ground on a tip back flange. Granted you can not fix stupid. You shoot steel at very close range and you can get hurt. Almost all of us here steel at 200yds is not needed as we have rifles that shoot so good at those distances you can hammer the same spot every time and not get anything out of it. Now with our rifles that do not shoot so well or just plinking steel can be very fun and safe if you are not a idiot.
I am not a bench rest shooter (taking the bolt out is stupid in my book) for many reasons but the main reason is when is a target in real life at 100, 200, 600, 800, or 1000? Almost never. So I need something I can see my hits on and can set someplace and then shoot at it from many different locations. I put many thousands of rounds down range every year almost all of them at steel. I know what bullets do when they hit steel. They splatter. The haters who do not like steel shooting will never understand until they go and shoot steel also.
That guy with the 50 he is very lucky. Shooting AP at steel that is just asking for it. Now if he was using lead that would not have happened.
So why will there be more work involved in keeping the range in a respectable order with steel being used? At the few local ranges I visit it seems like the regular hunters and paper punchers are the source of most of the trash. They are the ones who like to bring out other trash to shoot at. All the steel shooters I know take their steel with them when they go.
As to catching an edge comment. The part of the bullet that was not destroyed by the steel can go a ways. After my time in the USMC shooting and watching shooting bouncing bullets never really make it that far. We were shooting the M2 one day and we were just shooting at tire piles (to simulate people) the bullets would pass through the target and make it quite some distance. With that being said I fired a burst well over the targets and those bullets made it so much farther than the bouncing bullets ever thought they could make it. I was maybe giving them a 15 degree angle. That is more angle than needed to get over any berm I have ever seen. Also hitting the supporting stand if it is metal the bullets will just splatter on them if they are made from steel. If it is soft they will dig in and cause a hole or dent. In any case the bullet is destroyed.
Enough of this I am going shooting at steel.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
Leaving close range steel at a location where shooters are not under constant supervision is an invitation to disaster, and irrisponsible. I am not against steel. It just needs to be far enough out that it is safe to shoot at, and of suitable alloy. I put the first permanant "dinger" at the range I was a menber of at the time. The range is backstopped by a foothill of the Sierra Nevada Mountains, into which it is cut. I smile when I see pictures of typical backstops in other locations. Downrange there is a large pile of mixed clay and aggregate about 185 yd. from the firing line, immediately in front of it we mounted a 14" dia. plate of 1" T1 steel, on a mount that was loose enough to let it ring, but sturdy enough to survive bullet strikes. That plate went several years before being perforated, probably by some jackass with AP. Most of the members shot if from their elbows, at the bench. I used to kid them about that, because I chose the size to be a doable but challenging off hand target. No doubt, steel is fun, but it can hurt you if you do it wrong, and ranges have liability to worry about.
My member only range has gongs at 200 yards. The gongs are hung from two short chains and centered in an old end loader tire. The tires are set on the front edge of the 200 yard berm with the gong set toward the back of the tire. Even though they are worn out tires, there is still a lot of rubber surrounding the gong. There can't be much if anything splatter out of the tire as it surrounds and projects well in front of the gong.
TAB
TAB
Our club went to lengths to give members less expensive, expendable steel targets to shoot at in an attempt to perserve our expensive commercial HP silhouettes. Even though our range is 'members & guests only', we still see the results of what can only be termed 'stupidity'. It's a shame to have to do it this way, but planning in advance to accomodate "the lowest common denominator" of intelligence is something you've got to at least consider.
For my own range, I bought a couple of drops of 1/2" AR400 and cut out three full-sized IPSC targets. Shooting at freshly painted steel from 600-1000yds. has saved me a lot of time formerly spent driving back & forth to check targets while doing load development. I used to have to load full-sized 6'x6' LR targets to shoot on at these distances, but the steel allows me to get a lot more accomplished in a shorter period of time. If I were going to shoot any closer than 400yds., I'd have bought AR500 instead, but the AR400 is holding up extremely well against everything from 223 to hot 180gr. 7mm loads from 600yds. Edge hits will sometimes leave a small divot, but other than that, it's an order of magnitude better than mild steel.
For my own range, I bought a couple of drops of 1/2" AR400 and cut out three full-sized IPSC targets. Shooting at freshly painted steel from 600-1000yds. has saved me a lot of time formerly spent driving back & forth to check targets while doing load development. I used to have to load full-sized 6'x6' LR targets to shoot on at these distances, but the steel allows me to get a lot more accomplished in a shorter period of time. If I were going to shoot any closer than 400yds., I'd have bought AR500 instead, but the AR400 is holding up extremely well against everything from 223 to hot 180gr. 7mm loads from 600yds. Edge hits will sometimes leave a small divot, but other than that, it's an order of magnitude better than mild steel.
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Also... use the code "slickguns" and get an additional %15 off your HIGHEST price item... yes highest!
The link is https://shootingtargets7.com/store/?___store=default&ref=YjU2RlUyNjFXcVk9
Check them out. You will probably be impressed like I was.
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