Member BANNED for Mod Options from 22LR to...

[MihiT]

WARNING -- The Suggestions Made in this post are VERY DANGEROUS.

MihiT has been permanently banned from this SITE.


.219 zipper / improved
.218 bee / improved
.22 hornet / K / improved
.221 Fireball

I'm really just spitballing at this point, any advice greatfully received (except for "just buy a gun")
I will be converting a .22LR, probably bolt action. The smithing work RF to CF is trivial for me, so not a consideration.
I reload so I'm not limited by factory ammo, and I can make/modify dies.

Advantages of the Hornet is that factory ammo is available. Second place goes to .221 or .219 as .222 and .30-30 brass is common too, though more involved in forming.

Max case capacity goes to the .219 followed by .221, .218, .22 K, .22 Imp.

With a stock barrel, is there any real advantage in going past .218?
If no, then it really comes down to The Ackley or K hornet, The Ackley looks to have *slightly* more capacity but the 25° shoulder is probably less favourable than the 40° in terms of brass life?

Is pushing velocities going to chew out the barrel (probably stainless)? This isn't going to be a comp gun or see a lot of fast and hot shooting, probably a few hundred rounds a year.

Pressures on .22LR are given as 25,500 and the Hornet as 45,700. I don't think I need to be worried about this as I'll pick a decent donor gun.
(For reference the .218 Bee is given as 42,500 and the .221FB at 55,300)

Discuss...

 

[DickE]

Bolt will end up in your eye socket.

 

[tmwinds]

You're just kidding, right?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Taking a rimfire action to centerfire? And youre looking for a donor rifle? Why not go with a centerfire action to start with? Is your 22 donor action up for the pressure? They have awwwwful small lugs. How about bore and groove dia on a rimfire barrel?

 

[dolek]

No way,some strange joke...right ?

 

[Knotwild]

I don't know what you mean by stock barrel. But I once owned a Kimber .22 Hornet and the barrel shot out terribly by shooting probably 300 rounds. I took it the gunshop where I bought it and he sent it back to Kimber. Came back with a new barrel and it shot out just as quick. By shot out, I mean with no bore scope, I could see it with the naked eye looking down the barrel. He sent it back to Kimber, but kept a section of the barrel and sent it to a friend of his that was a metallurgist for his thoughts.

It turns out Kimber was using .22 lr barrels for the Hornet chambering. I sold it and NEVER missed it. But, I love Kimber quality so much I bought one of their 1911's because they offer it with a plastic main spring housing.

No brag, just fact.


Disclaimer
I'm no expert and my life history indicates that I have made many poor decisions, which infers that I have given a lot of bad advice. Therefore, I cannot be held responsible if you make a bad decision and follow my bad advice.

 

[Fast14riot]

Buy a Hornet based rifle and build a 22 mink, 22 squirrel, or I believe the other cartridge is called the Long Snapper. Keep the bolt out of your eye socket that way.

 

[MihiT]

Searching for bolt thrust numbers, haven't found any yet. One link mentioned the Ruger 77/22 and 77/22 Hornet use same rear bolt/lugs though...

 

[MihiT]

Taking a rimfire action to centerfire? And youre looking for a donor rifle? Why not go with a centerfire action to start with? Is your 22 donor action up for the pressure? They have awwwwful small lugs. How about bore and groove dia on a rimfire barrel?

Typically LR barrels are .222-.223, whereas CF barrels are nominally .224.
The hornet was originally designed around LR (.223) barrels of 1:14 or 1:16 twist.
Projectiles are still easily available for .222/.223 in all manner of flavours. I wo,uld of course slug the bore.

 

[MihiT]

Everyone who has said "no" - could you please provide reasoning, or better, evidence.

 

[TAJ45]

Typically LR barrels are .222-.223, whereas CF barrels are nominally .224.
The hornet was originally designed around LR (.223) barrels of 1:14 or 1:16 twist.
Projectiles are still easily available for .222/.223 in all manner of flavours. I wo,uld of course slug the bore.

Bingo ! As I was reading through, I was hoping someone would mention the bore dia difference.
Thumbs up.

 

[argh]

Everyone who has said "no" - could you please provide reasoning, or better, evidence.

Place a bolt from a 22 next to a centrefire bolt and compare the difference. Then compare the thickness of a rimfire action to a centrefire action. Then riddle yourself this..... "the pressure of a cf is 2x the pressure of a 22lr, why would the locking lugs be bigger, why would the action walls be thicker, why would the locking recesses be bigger?" Then ask if yourself how fast that 22lr bolt would be propelled out the back of a minature actioned designed for only a fraction of the pressure if i put a high intesity cartidge in a substandard action.....
A rugger 77/22 is not a typical rf action by the way, its a modified cf.

 

[DickE]

There is a post on the rimfire platform about peak pressure of rimfires. Although SAAMI lists it at 24000 PSI. Most believe it to be no more than 14,000 PSI. Far less than any centerfire worth experimenting with. If you do not heed these negative posts and go ahead with your project, be sure to tie down the rifle , use a long string to pull the trigger. Block yourself from flying debris. Have garbage can near by for the aftermath. Don't ask how I know of such things.

 

[MihiT]

Going by Lilja's formula for bolt thrust (http://riflebarrels.com/a-look-at-bolt-lug-strength/)

.22LR comes out at 1023 PSI
.22Hornet at 3127

 

[MihiT]

Bingo ! As I was reading through, I was hoping someone would mention the bore dia difference.
Thumbs up.

I did actually think about this some before posting... And I know a couple things about boomsticks.
It wasn't like "herp a derp big boolit bang bang"

 

[MihiT]

Place a bolt from a 22 next to a centrefire bolt and compare the difference. Then compare the thickness of a rimfire action to a centrefire action. Then riddle yourself this..... "the pressure of a cf is 2x the pressure of a 22lr, why would the locking lugs be bigger, why would the action walls be thicker, why would the locking recesses be bigger?" Then ask if yourself how fast that 22lr bolt would be propelled out the back of a minature actioned designed for only a fraction of the pressure if i put a high intesity cartidge in a substandard action.....

I ask a lot of whys. None of those, though.

A 10oz bolt (assuming free movement and not accounting for the plastic deformation of your theoretical action/bolt) would get up approx 40 FPS. Hitting with about 16 ft/lb of energy. Around about the same as a high end BB gun, less than paintball.

Now, did you have a point or just felt like being smug?

A rugger 77/22 is not a typical rf action by the way, its a modified cf.

So if my donor gun was a 77... hakuna matata, you reckon?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Bingo ! As I was reading through, I was hoping someone would mention the bore dia difference.
Thumbs up.

See post 4

 

[natdscott]

Everyone who has said "no" - could you please provide reasoning, or better, evidence.

Our reasoning is that we aren't interested in participating in your ill-conceived attempts to kill or maim yourself.

Our evidence is that you are clearly not a firearms engineer, despite your knowledge of "mods" and "boomsticks". The ACTUAL engineers behind these RF actions made almost everything about them smaller than their CF brethren.

Because they could.

Ya can't go the other way, so you'd be well counseled to drop it and ask questions about things you CAN do. Lotsa knowledge herebouts.

 

[argh]

I ask a lot of whys. None of those, though.

A 10oz bolt (assuming free movement and not accounting for the plastic deformation of your theoretical action/bolt) would get up approx 40 FPS. Hitting with about 16 ft/lb of energy. Around about the same as a high end BB gun, less than paintball.

Now, did you have a point or just felt like being smug?


So if my donor gun was a 77... hakuna matata, you reckon?

People have died over inflating truck tyres... trying to put 100 psi in.....
You are suggesting trying to put 50,000 psi in a container only designed for 25,000 psi

Sounds good to me

Please do not do any testing on a public range, and do not place other people in danger.

 

[MihiT]

Cool, well, found several links with several people having done it, with several different rifles. And none of them came back to post that they were dead.

Just as well someone once looked out the cave and thought "eh, what's out there..."