Measure twice....cut once.

[4xforfun]

You ever have one of those AH-HA moments...those times when you realize how dumb you are, and hope no one was watching......?

About a month ago I was having trouble with my VT 103'w sticking in the seating stem of my newest Dasher. Actually it has been going on since I got the new tube 18 months ago. It's just last month I got pissed off enough to worry about it, and my # 4 tube has 1400 rounds on it now. My method is run them through a body die (I have one for each tube I own...this tube is "Dasher 5") and then through the neck die with a .266 bushing in this case. Every bbl has it's own body die. Of course, it couldn't be me....just HAD to be the seater stem. Posted a thread about it here and I ended up getting a new stem ground.

When I got the stem back there was a note attached saying some nonsense about excessive neck tension....like .009?? They were using INSIDE measurements and they just didn't compute. I was using a .266 bushing on a .269 loaded round and that was that They OBVIOUSLY weren't as smart as me!!

THEN...I measured the OUTSIDE neck diameter of a prepped round ready to load.....exactly what I had sent them....... .261!! WHAT....I measured 10 more...... .261 !! I have 175 cases ready to load with a .261 OD neck!! W T F ?? I grabbed ALL of my stuff and went to the loading bench. ...including all of those fine measuring tools I own!!

Turns out that my "BODY DIE # 5" was actually a regular FL die without the stem.... NOT an actual "BODY DIE"...and...thus....no expander button! Thus..running them through the neck die with the .266 bushing was doing nothing.

NOW .261 MAKES PERFECT SENSE....NOW THE STICKING BULLET MAKES PERFECT SENSE. NOW 600 PLUS ROUNDS LATER, NOT FINDING A TUNE MAKES PERFECT SENSE.


I hope no one was watching.

Tod

 

[piie]

You must have been super impressed with the buttery smoothness of that bushing when “sizing” those necks...

 

[charcher]

No worries 4x, I wasn't looking.

Kevin

 

[Zero333]

That's a great reminder to us all.

I think it was Regan ? who said "Trust, but Verify".

 

[BoydAllen]

When working with a new die, I do a lot of measuring. Actually, I measure everything before and after running a fired case into the die, neck diameter, shoulder diameter ,and diameter .2 or so up from the head. In my correspondence and discussions with other shooters, I have found that this is not as common as I would have assumed. One of the advantages of a arbor press type seating die, used with a small arbor press, is the extreme sensitivity for seating force.

 

[SmokinJoe]

I have learned this myself, the hard way of course. IMO, when you get a new die and/or barrel, you should take some FF brass and measure the critical points and make a record of it, then resize, including getting the correct bump just like you are wanting to end up with, and take all those measurements again and record. Compare your measurements to see what is actually happening and make sure that is what you actually want to be happening. If you aren't getting what you want, you have to change something to get there. That might be sending the die back for some work or replacement with another die. It is definitely worth the effort and the die folks and gunsmiths can help you figure out the best way to get there.

 

[1kbrxDave]

Tod it is good to know that you are human, and wake mistakes and still are on top of the list. It gives the rest of us HOPE. See you at VT nationals

 

[Ringostar]

That certainly can explain the problem that you were having. My other half loves watching the different home remodeling shows on tv. I noticed on one this past weekend, the guy had a sign in his wood shop. It was a nice play on your headline. It said, “measure once cuss twice”

 

[rwj]

Don’t know who coined the phrase “to error is human”, but it’s accurate and one of my favorites! Character is revealed by how we deal with them!

 

[rjtfroggy]

I went to school with the NUNS and was always told never do math with a pen always use a pencil because pencils have erasers for when you make a mistake.

 

[Texas10]

I too catch myself making the mother of all mistakes by ASSUMING I'm doing what I think I'm doing. As Zero333 wrote.....Trust, but Verify. (An old Russian proverb.)

I spend a lot of time now measuring everything. Seems to make a difference.

 

[4xforfun]

You must have been super impressed with the buttery smoothness of that bushing when “sizing” those necks...

LOLOL...actually, I was thinking just that!!

 

[4xforfun]

I have learned this myself, the hard way of course. IMO, when you get a new die and/or barrel, you should take some FF brass and measure the critical points and make a record of it, then resize, including getting the correct bump just like you are wanting to end up with, and take all those measurements again and record. Compare your measurements to see what is actually happening and make sure that is what you actually want to be happening. If you aren't getting what you want, you have to change something to get there. That might be sending the die back for some work or replacement with another die. It is definitely worth the effort and the die folks and gunsmiths can help you figure out the best way to get there.

I did exactly that......except.....I didn't measure the neck. No need...why would I....it is a body die and doesn't touch the neck, right!! And i figured a .266 bushing is a .266 bushing, and have had that bushing for 10+ years.....why bother measure the neck?

I feel silly, but also relieved that maybe this tube could be a shooter after all!!

 

[Rdlningcltchdmpr]

You ever have one of those AH-HA moments...those times when you realize how dumb you are, and hope no one was watching......?

About a month ago I was having trouble with my VT 103'w sticking in the seating stem of my newest Dasher. Actually it has been going on since I got the new tube 18 months ago. It's just last month I got pissed off enough to worry about it, and my # 4 tube has 1400 rounds on it now. My method is run them through a body die (I have one for each tube I own...this tube is "Dasher 5") and then through the neck die with a .266 bushing in this case. Every bbl has it's own body die. Of course, it couldn't be me....just HAD to be the seater stem. Posted a thread about it here and I ended up getting a new stem ground.

When I got the stem back there was a note attached saying some nonsense about excessive neck tension....like .009?? They were using INSIDE measurements and they just didn't compute. I was using a .266 bushing on a .269 loaded round and that was that They OBVIOUSLY weren't as smart as me!!

THEN...I measured the OUTSIDE neck diameter of a prepped round ready to load.....exactly what I had sent them....... .261!! WHAT....I measured 10 more...... .261 !! I have 175 cases ready to load with a .261 OD neck!! W T F ?? I grabbed ALL of my stuff and went to the loading bench. ...including all of those fine measuring tools I own!!

Turns out that my "BODY DIE # 5" was actually a regular FL die without the stem.... NOT an actual "BODY DIE"...and...thus....no expander button! Thus..running them through the neck die with the .266 bushing was doing nothing.

NOW .261 MAKES PERFECT SENSE....NOW THE STICKING BULLET MAKES PERFECT SENSE. NOW 600 PLUS ROUNDS LATER, NOT FINDING A TUNE MAKES PERFECT SENSE.


I hope no one was watching.

Tod

Shame on you. Strive to be perfect like me. Somebody stole my dial caliper's again. Hahaha.