Maybe I'll start a thead on the feeler gage as a companion to the press.

[leatherstocking]

If a reloader wanted to set his die down .002, for FL sizing, could he:
1. Put a case in the case holder.
2. Raise the ram.
3. Measure the gap from case holder to die with a feeler gage, or maybe the gap is zero
4. Add .002 to the result, insert the appropriate feeler gage in the gap.
5. Readjust the die to contact.
6. Resize the case.
7. Check the degree of resizing with the comparator.
8. Re adjust the die if needed.

Please be nice, espescially to one another.
At least we'd be talking.
I'm not exactly a newbie, so don't hold back on the technical issues.
Can't seem to pick up any messages, an advice appreciated.

 

[Demi-human]

I am quite new at this. I don't like to move things (dies) about when I'm working. If a bullet won't seat just far enough and another cycle won't do it I slip a parchment under the brass. Two pieces are a thousandth for what I have. I must remember to get a set of smaller gauges my grandfather's are about the size of a butter knife.

 

[leatherstocking]

Sorry, missed the handle of the guy quoted first.
He was talking about a mentor in high precision shooting.

I remember on the phone he told me he FL sized everything. I was like "what? does this guy really know his stuf?f". Well turns out he did! Now that I know how to properly FL size it is all I do. My neck sizers collect dust


I will assume he did not neck size the case with a neck sizing die. I have neck sizing dies, I do not use them but I have them just in case. For years and yeas I have use a feeler gage when adjusting the die to adjust the case. The feeler gage gives me 5 options between full length sizing and the beginning of neck sizing. I am the fan of getting all the use out of a die I can before I start grinding on the top of the shell holder and or bottom of the die.

F. Guffey

 

[Sheldon N]

Step 1. Ignore anything posted by F. Guffey
Step 2. Get yourself some calipers and a comparator set.
Step 3. Watch this video until you understand how it all works.

Step 4. Use lock rings on your dies so you can pull the dies on and off, make fine adjustments by moving the lock ring against an index mark on the die (takes very little movement)
Step 5. Use a micrometer adjustable seating die for fine tuning bullet seating.
Step 6. When F. Guffey replies to this thread with "clarification" see step 1.

 

[Sheldon N]

And as an addendum as to why the feeler gauge isn't an ideal approach... The net result on the brass is what matters. The brass result will be affected by all sorts of things like the amount of total sizing taking place, the hardness of the brass (number of firings, annealing), the type/amount of lube you use, the dwell time of the brass at the top of the press stroke etc. Just because you use feeler gauges to move the die 0.002 doesn't necessarily mean that you'll get the same result on the brass.

And since you're going to have to measure the brass anyway to know where to start/stop die adjustments, why bother to measure the die position itself?

 

[ireload2]

See this underscore ( _ ) on your screen. That distance traveled on the outside of a loading die is about a .001 adjustment.
You can put a mark on your press and on your die or on the lock ring and the die with a sharpy pen that is about .040 long.
That mark will help calibrate your eyeballs for a .001 adjustment. Then check your work with the gage in post number 4.

Notice that Sheldon mentioned how fast you size and the dwell time.
All those things plus the amount of lube and the number of times the case is cycled to the top of the stroke change the amount of sizing by tiny amounts that can be measured with the gage.
If you put an indicator on your press you can even see it stretch when you size a case.

 

[alb]

The threads on dies are very coarse; they have to be in order to do what they're asked to during sizing. Turning a die such that you've got a delta of 0.002 is quite a small adjustment. There are products like the Redding shell holder sets and PMA micro-adjust for that purpose that can save a lot of frustration. Personally, I like the Redding option as it allows me to keep the sizing die adjusted down to cam-over against the shell holder.

 

[mac86951]

If a reloader wanted to set his die down .002, for FL sizing, could he:
1. Put a case in the case holder.
2. Raise the ram.
3. Measure the gap from case holder to die with a feeler gage, or maybe the gap is zero
4. Add .002 to the result, insert the appropriate feeler gage in the gap.
5. Readjust the die to contact.
6. Resize the case.
7. Check the degree of resizing with the comparator.
8. Re adjust the die if needed.

Please be nice, espescially to one another.
At least we'd be talking.
I'm not exactly a newbie, so don't hold back on the technical issues.
Can't seem to pick up any messages, an advice appreciated.

Wouldn't adding to the gap measurement have the result of raising the die 0.002" not lowering it?

 

[Brians356]

Wouldn't adding to the gap measurement have the result of raising the die 0.002" not lowering it?

He's raising the ram only until it stops on first contact with the shoulder is the only way I can interpret it. Presumably there is a measurable gap between die and shell holder at that point.
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[SWRichmond]

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/10/sinclair-full-length-sizing-die-shims/

 

[watercam]

The threads on your die are 1-in-14". One full rotation is .071". Divide by 8 and 1/8 turn is .008". 1/16 turn is .004". Turn, size a case, measure, adjust.
You get the idea.

 

[243winxb]

Use a Redding competition shell holder set. It helps remove spring in the press and slop in the linkage.

When the FL die and shell holder make contact, cam over (RCBS) , then lock the die ring. It helps square the die to the shell holder.

A feeler gauge does not. IMO.

 

[leatherstocking]

I see it like this, set the die down a predictable amount.
Check the result.
Readajust die before you resize 200 cases. If necessary.

And as an addendum as to why the feeler gauge isn't an ideal approach... The net result on the brass is what matters. The brass result will be affected by all sorts of things like the amount of total sizing taking place, the hardness of the brass (number of firings, annealing), the type/amount of lube you use, the dwell time of the brass at the top of the press stroke etc. Just because you use feeler gauges to move the die 0.002 doesn't necessarily mean that you'll get the same result on the brass.

And since you're going to have to measure the brass anyway to know where to start/stop die adjustments, why bother to measure the die position itself?

 

[Richard Jones]

Step 1 is always the correct thing to do.

 

[leatherstocking]

F. Guffey explains:

The feeler gage be be used two different ways; one way is to place the feeler gage between the deck of the shell holder and case head. I find the biggest advantage to the feeler gage comes when I need to form/size cases for short chambers. I can shorten the length of a case from the shoulder of the case to the case head .012" when I use a RCBS shell holder. The feeler gage also allows the reloader to increase the presses ability to overcome the cases ability to resist sizing; and then there is one of those 'and the then' moments. A reloader can use the feeler gage to when they think/believe they need a small base die.

A feeler gage can be used to increase the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head; I use a .014" feeler gage to adjust a 30/06 die off the shell holder when sizing cases for a rifle that has a long chamber. The chamber is .002" longer than a field reject length chamber. A famous gun smith was given credit for all of the long chambers, it did not bother him because he was not sensitive.

Redding competition shell holders are nice, I do not find them necessary nor do I find it necessary to grind my shell holders and or dies.

F. Guffey"

I think the famous gunsmith is likely Roy Weatherby. Mr. Guffey posted this in another thread on this forum.

 

[BoydAllen]

The two easiest ways to make accurate die adjustments are by the use of a stack of die shims, or by using one of PMA Tool's Micro Die Adjusters.
Here is a link to a video that demonstrates the latter.

 

[Brians356]

Boyd,

That's slick. However, there is some "feel" involved when, after re-coupling the top and bottom, "we tighten it up on the press" (1:36 in the video). There's varying degrees of "tighten". For it to be repeatable, you'd want to apply witness marks on both the top of the press and on the base of the tool, and see that they align every time.
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[dkhunt14]

Boyd,

That's slick. However, there is some "feel" involved when, after re-coupling the top and bottom, "we tighten it up on the press" (1:36 in the video). There's varying degrees of "tighten". For it to be repeatable, you'd want to apply witness marks on both the top of the press and on the base of the tool, and see that they align every time.
-

Not exactly. Because every time you fire and size it might need changed. Brass gets harder with each use. You still have to measure with a head space tool and set the die each time. Sometimes especially it might be the same but as they get harder it will take more size to hit your number. I remember annealing 308 Baers one time. They were fired 5 times. After annealing they went .007 more on the shoulder after sizing at the same setting. That's why I used a cam over and then lock the ring. Then you put in die shims and size the case. Keep taking away a .001 till you get the bump you want. Another plus for camming and using shims is once the die is cammed and you screw down the lock the ring, the die will be square because of the camming pressure. The shims keep the die square while moving away from the the shellholder. Matt

 

[Demi-human]

Constantly amazed by the rifles I see here, now I am drooling over the tools and presses! I have glimpsed into the future and I am an accurate PAUPER! I was under the impression that we were talking bullet seating as that is when I employ this trick. I am just beginning and found it more simple to buy a hornady press, dies and comparator set. So without a micrometer seater, and not wanting to disturb the seating stem, I use the paper slip to make the half or one thoundsandth adjustment. I think this is from differing bullet points. I try this once and if it doesn't measure up its a warming shot.
I don't belive at all that this would stand up to sizing. A small guage may fit. But would it support the brass without rocking? Two? One on each side? If the brass didn't size the same as every other one (well ninty-six percent), it doesn't want to be a case anymore and it should be a lamp instead. (Maybe it would prefer a different caliber?). In my situation my presicion cases are inexpensive, and my fun cases are pistol. (Caliber envy between brass?) Shoot well.
Demi-human

 

[Brians356]

Not exactly. Because every time you fire and size it might need changed. Brass gets harder with each use. You still have to measure with a head space tool and set the die each time. Sometimes especially it might be the same but as they get harder it will take more size to hit your number. I remember annealing 308 Baers one time. They were fired 5 times. After annealing they went .007 more on the shoulder after sizing at the same setting. That's why I used a cam over and then lock the ring. Then you put in die shims and size the case. Keep taking away a .001 till you get the bump you want. Another plus for camming and using shims is once the die is cammed and you screw down the lock the ring, the die will be square because of the camming pressure. The shims keep the die square while moving away from the the shellholder. Matt

I don't dispute your point. But my comment pertained to the video narrator's assertion that the user could return to an exact setting at a later time, even after the tool had been set up for a different application in the interim. That's only true if the tool base can be indexed against the top of the press. Whether one should care about returning to a particular setting is a side discussion.
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