Mauser Maximum Pressures

[TonyR]

I have a couple of Mauser barreled actions I was given by a friend. One is what looks to be an original 1908 Brazilian Mauser in 7X57 made in Germany by DWM and all of the numbers match. The other is an Interarms Mark X in 270 Win made in Yugoslavia. Can either of both of these actions be loaded to the modern pressure limits of their respective cartridges or others such as a 308 Win? I load my own.

 

[Bulseyetom]

My Model 93 Mauser in 7x57 was also made by DWM in Berlin. I keep pressures to 44,000 or less. No use trying to push the envelope in my opinion. Tom

 

[TRECustom]

TonyR, in my opinion the '08 Brazilian should be limited to the pressures developed by the original 7 x 57 cartridge. I've seen a lot of info that supports that conclusion.

On the other hand, the MK X is certainly able to handle the .308 class of cartridges. They were also sold in a Std Magnum form for 7mm Rem Mag, .300 Win Mag, .338 Win Mag etc. Some were marketed by Interarms, Whitworth, Parker-Hale, and Charles Daly, (all MK X's made by Zastava) and I've seen a couple of the Whitworths and Interarms for H & H length cartridges. I have a factory Interarms in .375 H & H that is a fine shooter. I also have a custom on a Charles Daly in .220 Swift. I saw a Whitworth MK X heavy barrel custom in .338 x .378 Weatherby! No way I would do that, but it had been shot quite a bit and the bolt was not setting back.

If the MK X is in good condition, go for it.

Tom

 

[davery25]

DO NOT take my word for it, but weren't the old mausers proof tested with a single round to 66,000 PSI? I know that the swedish M96 mausers were.

 

[Robert]

DO NOT take my word for it, but weren't the old mausers proof tested with a single round to 66,000 PSI? I know that the swedish M96 mausers were.

Mauser Werke built rifles based on ex-miltary 98 in calibres up to the 10,75 x 68.

Belgian riflemakers (Mahillon among others) used them for .375 Holland-Holland Magnum. They were with an extended box magazine, a cut was made at front for a new feeding ramp and also at rear for the extended magazine, and the bridge was also cut to allow feeding from the top. I used one of those made by Mahillon together with a Mauser-Werke 10,75x68, for years with no problem, desoite the long-barreled 10,75 showed signs of pressure using Kynoch steel jacketed bullets obviously intended for shorter barrels.

R.G.C

 

[davery25]

pardon my possible ignorance, but the higher calibre doesnt mean higher pressures right? Alot of the time aren't the larger cals actually lower in pressure than some of the smaller ones. My .223 routinely hits 56,000 - 60,000 psi.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

dav - Not ignorance at all - Pressure is / was lower in many of the older cartridges. - Now Days we handloaders basically decide what "our" working pressures will be.
Also "Bolt Thrust" is a whole new topic - basically case head size and pressure (and I believe projectile weight is also calculated into it as well) = amount of bolt thrust. The bigger the case head (ran at the same pressure as a smaller sized case head) the greater bolt thrust will be. I.E. 57500 psi in a 375 H & H will have way more bolt thrust than a .223 or .308 running the same pressure.
And has been aforementioned there are some mausers that are stronger than others (a reliable & knowledgable gunsmith would be advised on this topic) - But I've seen military 98's and the Mark X used for just about everything that a mod. 70 or 700 Rem. were providing service for.
Cheers - Ron

 

[Robert]

dav - Not ignorance at all - Pressure is / was lower in many of the older cartridges. - Now Days we handloaders basically decide what "our" working pressures will be.
Also "Bolt Thrust" is a whole new topic - basically case head size and pressure (and I believe projectile weight is also calculated into it as well) = amount of bolt thrust. The bigger the case head (ran at the same pressure as a smaller sized case head) the greater bolt thrust will be. I.E. 57500 psi in a 375 H & H will have way more bolt thrust than a .223 or .308 running the same pressure.
And has been aforementioned there are some mausers that are stronger than others (a reliable & knowledgable gunsmith would be advised on this topic) - But I've seen military 98's and the Mark X used for just about everything that a mod. 70 or 700 Rem. were providing service for.
Cheers - Ron

Ron,

+ 1 on all this. A Magnum case head is twice the surface of a .223 one. Easy to say then double the bolt thrust at equivalnt pressure.

R.G.C

R.G.C

 

[shortgrass]

In the past the Mauser '98 has been the basis of many, fine custom built rifles (anyone else remember when you could by a militay '98 for $29.95?). That Mk10 is just a modern rendition of the old commercial '98s. Many military '98s have been built in 7x57mm, .30-06, .308 and any others based on these rounds. Many have had the bolt face opened for the magnums, .308 Norma, .300 Win. Mag., 7mm Rem Mag. and others. Most military '98s have been just fine with these, some have 'set back'. You have to remember, these are 'old' technology when it comes to the steel used and the heat treatment that was used at that time. The '08 Brazilian should be fine with a .308 barrel fitted and head spaced to it, as long as it's not a rusty piece and unaltered. After the barrel is installed it should be 'test fired' (with factory ammo) so the cases can be measured and locking lug 'set back' can be checked (you'll know right away if the lugs are setting back, the bolt will be hard to open, and, I've seen some you couldn't get open without alot off fussing). Sporterizing a military '98 costs more than using a commercial action as it has to be drilled and tapped for scope mounts, the bolt handle will have to be forged over or cut off and a sporter version welded back on, and ,most likely, an aftermarket trigger and safety installed.

 

[shortgrass]

My Model 93 Mauser in 7x57 was also made by DWM in Berlin. I keep pressures to 44,000 or less. No use trying to push the envelope in my opinion. Tom

The models 1893 and 1896 are not as strong (in design) as the 1898. The 1908 Brazilian is a 1898.

 

[normmatzen]

I bought an old Bubba'ed M93 Spanish Mauser in 7X57 which didn't do much more than wet my interest in the 7X57. So, I'm now building a hunting rifle based on a VZ24 m98 with a 7X57 barrel.

Because of the small ring and large ring actions I now have, I did some research into the specified case limitations of the 7X57.

It is common knowledge that American manufacturers load the 7X57 down substantially based on fears that the small ring mausers will have trouble. Well, I found that the European pressure specs on the 7X57 case are a bit higher than the American Specs. Although I keep the loads on my small ring gun down to 1900 era loads, I will have no problem loading my M98 based gun on more aggresive limits. I'm looking for 140 gr bullets perking along at 2900 fps!

 

[Robert]

I bought an old Bubba'ed M93 Spanish Mauser in 7X57 which didn't do much more than wet my interest in the 7X57. So, I'm now building a hunting rifle based on a VZ24 m98 with a 7X57 barrel.

Because of the small ring and large ring actions I now have, I did some research into the specified case limitations of the 7X57.

It is common knowledge that American manufacturers load the 7X57 down substantially based on fears that the small ring mausers will have trouble. Well, I found that the European pressure specs on the 7X57 case are a bit higher than the American Specs. Although I keep the loads on my small ring gun down to 1900 era loads, I will have no problem loading my M98 based gun on more aggresive limits. I'm looking for 140 gr bullets perking along at 2900 fps!

Normmatzen,

CIP pressures for the 7x57 are given at 3900 bar This is the nominal maximal cartridge pressure, not the PK (4485) or PE (4875) testing pressures?

In comparison .308 Wini s given at 4150 bar, PK 4775 and PE 5100.

As both cartidges are same case head diameter, the difference can only be in the charactersitics of the case itself.
Then, as far as the action is concerned, what is safe for the .308 would be even more for the 7w57 if kept at nominal pressures.

PK is for copper crusher and PE for Piezo measurings.

R.G.C

 

[butchlambert]

All of my mauser receivers were annealed before smithing and then recased after the work was done. For the folks that don't know, that is case hardened. They are not made of the material that can be heat treated unless you call case hardening heat treating. If you had a way to check the receivers yourself you would find they didn't case harden the whole receiver.I believe the prewar, before 1940, are considered to be good to go.
As an aside, I traded for a Mexican Mauser chambered in 17-220 Swift several years ago. It shot just OK, but didn't blow up.
Butch

 

[jonbearman]

Better to check with a known gunsmith who works with mausers all day and see what he says.The 98's were known for there overkill in design.And since when is the 8mm mauser a low pressure cartridge.

 

[Robert]

.And since when is the 8mm mauser a low pressure cartridge.

Ton,
Shortest correct answer to the question.

CIP/ordnance pressure :3900 bar , or 56565 PSI for the Infanterie Patrone 'Nur fuer gewehr' (infanterie cartridge, 'For rifle only').
R.G.C

 

[Larryh128]

That Mark X and the 1908 will take as much pressure as a 700. A LOT of custom rifles have been built on 08's and they weren't using sqib loads.

 

[js2013]

The case hardening on the 1908 wasn't as thick as some of the later 98's (which certainly doesn't mean the 1908s are bad). Watch lug setback/headspace that'll probably be the first sign of over pressure if you push the pressure envelope. I've rebarrelled late 1930-ish M98s to standard 308 pressure without problems.

 

[Laurie]

7 year old thread this .......... and most sadly, the OP Tony R is no longer with us.

 

[SBS]

That Mark X and the 1908 will take as much pressure as a 700. A LOT of custom rifles have been built on 08's and they weren't using sqib loads.

Considerable difference between these two actions. The 1908 is of the case hardened type, which had an original peak operating pressure of less than 47,000 psi. The Mark X is of modern alloy steel which is heat treated throughout. An excellent reference for those wishing to build on Mausers is "The Mauser 91-98 Bolt Actions A Shop Manual", by Jerry Kuhnhausen. It discusses the heat treat issues, desirable models, pressures, etc. It's a paperback and not too expensive -- $34.99 at Brownells.

 

[Will Henry]

The 1908 DWM seems OK with high pressure loadings with standard cartridges (270 Winchester). However, if you are one who likes to push things a little, there is a real good chance of setting the lugs back in the receiver. The locking lug seats are a little on the soft side. I think one could use loads at 270 saami pressures with no issues. I would not use a 1908 for a magnum cartridge without having it re-treated. The 1908's I have seen with setback were either in magnum chamberings, loaded too hot, or both. WH