Mauser 98 vz24 action max pressure.
- Thread starter Mussman
- Start date
I got the gun done at a gun school hard to take it back. The 26 nosler is the same length as a 30-06 . The 26 nosler will fit in mag my only concern is the pressure on the action. Thanks for the reply.
The Brno, VZ-24 action is a solid choice, according to Kuhnhausen's book "Highly desirable for building custom rifles".
How many thousands of safari rifles in .375 H&H (62,000 PSI) and similar hard-hitters have been built on K98k actions, as well as many in 30-.06 as well.
"Done at a gun school" is pretty nebulous... Mausers are case-hardened and not through-hardened. Requires thorough inspection of lugs and abutments for setback to determine suitability.
So my response is "yes, I'd do it" pending inspection.
How many thousands of safari rifles in .375 H&H (62,000 PSI) and similar hard-hitters have been built on K98k actions, as well as many in 30-.06 as well.
"Done at a gun school" is pretty nebulous... Mausers are case-hardened and not through-hardened. Requires thorough inspection of lugs and abutments for setback to determine suitability.
So my response is "yes, I'd do it" pending inspection.
butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
I have several 98type Mausers from 250-3000 to 458 Lott. Some have been recase hardened.
Make sure the gunsmithing student didn’t “true” the lug seats or lap the bolt lugs and cut through the thin case causing setback. Also can be caused by high pressure rounds which it sounds like from your description of blown out primer pockets.
If that’s the case it will need to be re trued, then re case hardened or nitrided. Probably better/ cheaper off to start with a new action .
Iirc Large ring mausers were meant for 55000 cup
Small ring 45000
If that’s the case it will need to be re trued, then re case hardened or nitrided. Probably better/ cheaper off to start with a new action .
Iirc Large ring mausers were meant for 55000 cup
Small ring 45000
I own (23) VZ24 rifles in various states of sporterizing.
I can blow the primer out of a 308 case head and no damage. see pic
But one VZ24 I converted to 7mmRM and with a 108 kpsi load [Quickload calculated] caused the bolt to be damaged and the receiver lug abutments were damaged. see pic. Other bolts would fit in the receiver. The bolt would fit in other receivers, but the original bolt would not fit in the original receiver. I put some valve grind compound on the lugs and manually worked the bolt handle. I cleaned out the rifle and the barrel. The Barrel is a Chrome moly Lothar Walther from Brownells. I then shot an antelope with the the rifle at long range [see pic] and some deer at long range [not shown].
If I measure the cross section of most bolt action lugs; Rem700, Win M70, Sav 110, and 98 Mauser, they are all about the same. They are not as strong as a Ruger #1 or a Handi rifle, but they are strong enough to pass a proof load test.
For a SAAMI proof test there would be ~44% over load compared to the max average service load.
This test would correspond to the equivalent of thousands of rounds of max of average max service load caused fatigue in steel.
The 7mmRM load I fired represents more bolt thrust than the smaller diameter 308 would cause.
I have pushed the 308 case head as hard as I can in 1938 Turkish Mauser, with no damage to the action. see pic.
I can blow the primer out of a 308 case head and no damage. see pic
But one VZ24 I converted to 7mmRM and with a 108 kpsi load [Quickload calculated] caused the bolt to be damaged and the receiver lug abutments were damaged. see pic. Other bolts would fit in the receiver. The bolt would fit in other receivers, but the original bolt would not fit in the original receiver. I put some valve grind compound on the lugs and manually worked the bolt handle. I cleaned out the rifle and the barrel. The Barrel is a Chrome moly Lothar Walther from Brownells. I then shot an antelope with the the rifle at long range [see pic] and some deer at long range [not shown].
If I measure the cross section of most bolt action lugs; Rem700, Win M70, Sav 110, and 98 Mauser, they are all about the same. They are not as strong as a Ruger #1 or a Handi rifle, but they are strong enough to pass a proof load test.
For a SAAMI proof test there would be ~44% over load compared to the max average service load.
This test would correspond to the equivalent of thousands of rounds of max of average max service load caused fatigue in steel.
The 7mmRM load I fired represents more bolt thrust than the smaller diameter 308 would cause.
I have pushed the 308 case head as hard as I can in 1938 Turkish Mauser, with no damage to the action. see pic.
Attachments
Without a complete inspection of your bolt and receiver, I would not suggest the rechamber , unless you like blowing mauseres up like clark . Ive seen some vz 24s from China that were rode hard and probably have blown in the past and still survive 30-06 pressures. Then Ive seen near new 98 vzs and thell set the lugs back with hot 308 . I dont like to gamble .
SBS
Gold $$ Contributor
I also am a fan of Jerry Kuhnhauser's book on Mausers. A read of the whole book should discourage one from your proposed conversion. While he states that conversion to the (older) standard length magnum cartridges such as .300 Win. Mag, 7mm Rem. Mag. may be safely done, there are some caveats. Quality of action, wear or pitting on bolt lug or lug abutment surfaces, too much removal of case hardening on bolt face when opening up bolt (thereby removing sufficient case hardening) and hardness testing should be done on bolt and receiver. Everythng needs to be in good shape, because average working pressure of the 8mm round designed for the M98 was less than 47,000 PSI. The older magnum rounds can exceed 57,000 PSI, which is why he doesn't suggest converting to the longer H&H length cases, which require cutting metal from behind the lower lug abutment. The 26 Nosler has an average working pressure of 65,000 PSI, which is pretty close to the proof load used for the 8mm round, when the action was new. Also, the larger case head (PSI is pounds per square inch) puts more rearward force on the bolt/bolt lugs. Today with modern rifles and rounds, we do not routinely run proof loads in our rifles. I have pulled a number of barrels off military 98 actions that had lug setback (complaint was hard bolt lift) that had been converted to magnums. I can imagine how much worse they might have been trying to use such high pressure rounds as the 26 Nosler. I'm with Gmac, gambling with your eyesight or a serious injury is not worth it. Get a good gunsmith to adjust your headspace and keep the caliber you have. I personally own a number of 98 action custom rifles and haven't and won't convert such actions to any magnum round.
Last edited:
jackieschmidt
Gold $$ Contributor
The problem with most, if not all military Mauser is the steel used. In modern actions such as Remington, we think in terms of Chrome Moly, usually 4140 or 4142 at around 34/36 RC hardness. The steel usually used in the military Mauser was 1030/1040. While this is a steel that will respond to a heat treat, the properties obtained are sub standard compared to a true alloy steel.
The usual practice was to do a case hardening, which process used varied from Country to Country. While this case hardening did impart a good wearability, it did little to enhance the properties of the parent steel in terms of tensile and yield strength.
PO Ackley did quite a bit of testing on the various military actions from WW-1 through WW-2. He tested them to destruction. The Mauser, the various ‘03 Springfield variants, the Caricanos and the like were found to be perfectly suitable for the chamberings of the period which most fell into the 45,000 to 50,000 psi range. Surprisingly, by his testing methods, the Japanese Arisaka proved to be the strongest Of the lot.
These old military actions will not approach the strength level of a modern action produced from a true deep hardening steel such as the Chrome Moly variants. And they are quite a bit behind any of the actions machined fron one of the precipitation hardening Stainless Steels such as 17-4. Keep in mind, 416 IS NOT one of these.
I would not be scared to chamber one for 50,000 Psi, but not much over.
The usual practice was to do a case hardening, which process used varied from Country to Country. While this case hardening did impart a good wearability, it did little to enhance the properties of the parent steel in terms of tensile and yield strength.
PO Ackley did quite a bit of testing on the various military actions from WW-1 through WW-2. He tested them to destruction. The Mauser, the various ‘03 Springfield variants, the Caricanos and the like were found to be perfectly suitable for the chamberings of the period which most fell into the 45,000 to 50,000 psi range. Surprisingly, by his testing methods, the Japanese Arisaka proved to be the strongest Of the lot.
These old military actions will not approach the strength level of a modern action produced from a true deep hardening steel such as the Chrome Moly variants. And they are quite a bit behind any of the actions machined fron one of the precipitation hardening Stainless Steels such as 17-4. Keep in mind, 416 IS NOT one of these.
I would not be scared to chamber one for 50,000 Psi, but not much over.
Last edited:
Thanks for all the great info. What a great education!!!!
6.5x57 would work. Seems obsolete, but a decent fit for your situation. I highly doubt you will ever find it on the shelf of a LGS however.
Best of luck on your project, Peter.
As I understand it a setback it not a big deal on a Mauser 98. The steel is basicly 1030. I was taught that if you machine the lug abudments back to true and the bolt and barrel can be made to headspace there is no issue. This is so true that F&N used to make oversized bolts specificaly to give new life back to old damaged recievers. I have two such oversized bolts.
www.sarcoinc.com
M98 Mauser Bolt Body with Extra Long Lugs, New
www.sarcoinc.com
butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
It is a problem if you remachine the lug abutments and do notAs I understand it a setback it not a big deal on a Mauser 98. The steel is basicly 1030. I was taught that if you machine the lug abudments back to true and the bolt and barrel can be made to headspace there is no issue. This is so true that F&N used to make oversized bolts specificaly to give new life back to old damaged recievers. I have two such oversized bolts.
M98 Mauser Bolt Body with Extra Long Lugs, New
View attachment 1669500
have it recase hardened.
This is my old 458Lott that is headed to Africa for a Cape Buffalo hunt. It is a VZ24.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.