Mauser 98 rebarrel (new question added)

[Dave in WI]

Guy dropped off a what appears to be a sporterized Columbian 98 chambered in 30-06. Wants a new 30-06 barrel on it. I was taught to have the shoulder and internal lug both touch. What are you guys doing? Both touch, front of receiver only, or internal lug only?

 

[Will Henry]

After first making sure the face of the receiver and the c-ring are on parallel planes, I aim to contact the receiver face .002" before the barrel contacts the inner barrel seat (c-ring). I don't know if this is right or wrong, but it is my way. WH

 

[joshb]

Calling @Ggmac ! Our resident Mauser expert!

 

[Ggmac]

Dont have both touching . Ive done many tests and everyone that had both shoulders touching would throw a flyer . Remove the barrel and relieve either shoulder and the flyers went away . I check the inner collar but usually face the outer receiver ring and torque the barrel to that .

 

[swd]

I prefer to true up the front of the face of the receiver and seat against it and leave the back around .005” shy of the C ring.

 

[Will Henry]

Dont have both touching . Ive done many tests and everyone that had both shoulders touching would throw a flyer . Remove the barrel and relieve either shoulder and the flyers went away . I check the inner collar but usually face the outer receiver ring and torque the barrel to that .

I simply have never seen that effect. Whenever given the opportunity to seat both ends of the barrel tenon, I have taken it. Mauser, Musgrave, MRC, RPA, 788, Lee Enfield, and more. When I could load both surfaces, I always felt it added to the integrity of the joint. Again, I always wanted to shoulder to contact .002 ahead of the inner seat and tightened until it was solidly seated at both points. I think it is definitely bad to contact the inner ring first. The tenon and seat won't deflect enough to allow the shoulder to seat solidly, also the two surface must be true in reference to one another. WH

 

[Ggmac]

Over 10 yr span , testing about a dozen different 98s , all but one threw fliers . After relieving either contact , the fliers stopped . Testing was done in a fixed machine rest and actually retested a couple by making both contact again and the fliers came back . This was just an observation, it was real testing over a decade or more .
Granted , setting a barrel to contact both shoulders and test firing for function, then using it for hunting, may never show a flier .
I like testing stuff . I’ve currently got a few tests going on 14 yrs , I’ll probably get the results when I’m 70 ! That particular test is rust prevention. South Florida is hard on steel . So far , steel painted then shot with one of 3 different kinds of what I call cosmoline but are actually sprays used to store metal for long periods.
The 3 leading brands all showed rust after 2-4 yrs when NOT using the PAINT first .
Anyway you do it , just enjoy the engineering of the old Mauser 98 .

Ps , my guns were target rifles , some I used at Williamsport,Pa, at 1000 ygs .
A 7-300 weatherby and a 30-338 . Both ate barrels pretty quick

 

[js2013]

FWIW - It’s been awhile but read (kuhnhausen I believe) inside ring makes most/heavy contact.

 

[Will Henry]

I have not done such testing, but have built some accuracy rifles on Mausers (over forty years ago, mind you) and was always satisfied with the results. Now, I have to look more closely at the work I've been doing for the last 45 years. Thanks a lot! WH

 

[js2013]

Can’t argue with results. If it works for you, then it works.

 

[jackieschmidt]

It would make sense that if you do take the time to have the barrel tighten agains both surfaces, it would be helpful if both were dead true with each other.

 

[SBS]

It would make sense that if you do take the time to have the barrel tighten agains both surfaces, it would be helpful if both were dead true with each other.

In my experience with military 98 actions, that is seldom the case. When measuring the receiver face to the inside shoulder, they don't measure the same all around the diameter. Tried facing the front of the receiver to the barrel threads and got variable results - some better and some worse, but still not true to each other. This being the case, I've always trued the front of the receiver to the inside barrel threads and cut shank just short enough that it didn't contact inside shoulder. Since these are case hardened simple carbon steel, you cannot safely machine the inside shoulder to true it to the receiver front. Discussed this with Dave Kiff at the Shot Show when he first made tooling to true receivers. Several prospective customers did not understand why he didn't make tooling to true 98 Mausers. Would have worked on the post-War commercial 98's (made from heat treated alloy steel), but not a large market and he felt there was the obvious danger of cutting the case dangerously thin on the military receivers.

 

[jackieschmidt]

In my experience with military 98 actions, that is seldom the case. When measuring the receiver face to the inside shoulder, they don't measure the same all around the diameter. Tried facing the front of the receiver to the barrel threads and got variable results - some better and some worse, but still not true to each other. This being the case, I've always trued the front of the receiver to the inside barrel threads and cut shank just short enough that it didn't contact inside shoulder. Since these are case hardened simple carbon steel, you cannot safely machine the inside shoulder to true it to the receiver front. Discussed this with Dave Kiff at the Shot Show when he first made tooling to true receivers. Several prospective customers did not understand why he didn't make tooling to true 98 Mausers. Would have worked on the post-War commercial 98's (made from heat treated alloy steel), but not a large market and he felt there was the obvious danger of cutting the case dangerously thin on the military receivers.

^^^^^^^
good info.

Several years ago, I trued up the outside face of three Mauser Actions for a local shooter. I did it by threading a mandrel with a flat trued face to seat against the inside shoulder, with the outside face hanging out over a relief.

You simply snug the action onto the mandrel, Seating it against that inner shoulder, and with an appropriate tool, take just enough off of the outer face to true it.

This way, you never worry about the case hardening on th inner face.

Here is a simple sketch.

 

[shortgrass]

"What's old is now new". Not so long ago any and every gunsmith "worth his 'salt'" , knew how to barrel a '98... We "cut our teeth" on Mausers, Springfields and M17s/P14s. Still a popular option for a classic in some circles.

 

[Will Henry]

^^^^^^^
good info.

Several years ago, I trued up the outside face of three Mauser Actions for a local shooter. I did it by threading a mandrel with a flat trued face to seat against the inside shoulder, with the outside face hanging out over a relief.

You simply snug the action onto the mandrel, Seating it against that inner shoulder, and with an appropriate tool, take just enough off of the outer face to true it.

This way, you never worry about the case hardening on th inner face.

Here is a simple sketch.View attachment 1468769

And there you have it. I just thread and face a stub in the three jaw chuck, screw the action on, and face the receiver. I measure to confirm then fit the barrel as described. Of course, I have to make a new piece each time if I want it perfect. WH

 

[Ggmac]

In my experience with military 98 actions, that is seldom the case. When measuring the receiver face to the inside shoulder, they don't measure the same all around the diameter. Tried facing the front of the receiver to the barrel threads and got variable results - some better and some worse, but still not true to each other. This being the case, I've always trued the front of the receiver to the inside barrel threads and cut shank just short enough that it didn't contact inside shoulder. Since these are case hardened simple carbon steel, you cannot safely machine the inside shoulder to true it to the receiver front. Discussed this with Dave Kiff at the Shot Show when he first made tooling to true receivers. Several prospective customers did not understand why he didn't make tooling to true 98 Mausers. Would have worked on the post-War commercial 98's (made from heat treated alloy steel), but not a large market and he felt there was the obvious danger of cutting the case dangerously thin on the military receivers.

I think ,at least with my tests , that having both shoulders hit that thermal expansion of the metal has something to do with the fliers .
I agree most inner collars are off , sometimes way off . The commercial mausers with the double c inner collar are the worse .

 

[Ggmac]

And there you have it. I just thread and face a stub in the three jaw chuck, screw the action on, and face the receiver. I measure to confirm then fit the barrel as described. Of course, I have to make a new piece each time if I want it perfect. WH

Don’t laugh , I’ve done many that way . When working for one particular gun shop , thats what they wanted . Really never had any accuracy complaints .

 

[SBS]

^^^^^^^
good info.

Several years ago, I trued up the outside face of three Mauser Actions for a local shooter. I did it by threading a mandrel with a flat trued face to seat against the inside shoulder, with the outside face hanging out over a relief.

You simply snug the action onto the mandrel, Seating it against that inner shoulder, and with an appropriate tool, take just enough off of the outer face to true it.

This way, you never worry about the case hardening on th inner face.

Here is a simple sketch.View attachment 1468769

So if you make the barrel copy the stub, you still have the barrel touching the inside shoulder only at the high spot, not all the way around. I use one of the old Brownell 98 Mauser mandrels that trues the front of the receiver to the threads and it works in a similar way, screwed in until it is tight against the inside shoulder and the mandrel (which is long enough to go through the receiver) is put on centers on the lathe. I still avoid having the barrel shank contacting the inside shoulder. BTW, had to true up the mandrel properly. Same was true for some made for other actions. Brownell replaced several of them, they were so far out and the mandrel shafts ends had considerable runout.

 

[DGP4]

Super interesting gunsmithing thread! Thanks to all the experts who have contributed. I have 2 Mauser sporters that may need re-barreling in the near future and this is very valuable information.

 

[Will Henry]

Turning the stub in the three jaw chuck, or any other chuck, results in a piece with the threads perfectly perpendicular to the face as long as the piece is not removed. A ll machining is done with one set-up. If the piece is to be re-used, it has to be set up in the four jaw and dialed on the circumference and the face. I generally just make another piece. Seating against the inner seat should result in the receiver face being parallel to the seat. This, providing the threads are perpendicular to the inner seat or the threads are loose enough to allow the inner seat to be the locator. WH