magnum primers in 222 Remington?
- Thread starter gambleone
- Start date
If they work in 223 they’ll work in 222 std or Mag. Go for it.
gambleone
Silver $$ Contributor
Thanks for your info. Will try them. Reason is, i have a bunch of them.
jepp2
Gold $$ Contributor
Well maybe. Some call the Remington 7 1/2 a magnum primer, some don't. H322 is an easy to light powder. Unless I am using a Rem 7 1/2, I don't use a magnum primer with it. I just haven't gotten the same accuracy and ES and SD with magnum primers in the small capacity cases.
They will work, they may not perform as well.
gambleone
Silver $$ Contributor
I should have mentioned I will try the 52gr Berger.
My old Vixen 222 loves the 52 Bergers, the ground hogs not so much.
gambleone
Silver $$ Contributor
What powder did you use?
Tag
+1 ,worth repeating...they will work just fine,they may just become your primer of choice.
Others worked, but I settled on H-4198. Mine showed a preference to 4198 with 40 V Max also. Been though several powders, bullet and primer combos. Always chalked it up to a 1966 Rifle was only capable of so much. Then came one last go with the 52 Berger. Dead calm summer evening benched at 300 it went a couple thou over and inch and repeated. That's when I figure even a dummy knows to leave well enough alone.
Will Wolf primers work? absolutely will go bang. Only testing will tell you what your rifle likes best. If your satisfied with the results leave it alone and shoot it.
The Rem 7 1/2 is a 'magnum' primer so you're comparing 'magnum to magnum' here. (The Rem 6 1/2 is the 'standard' version.)
SR primers display different ignition characteristics according to make and model but far less difference between 'standard' and 'magnum' than in the LR type. The main difference between grades is in cup thickness, the original models (CCI and Remington) being thin-walled and relatively weak to suit 22 Hornet and Bee pressures and also provide reliable ignition in many pre-war converted rifles with weak ignition systems. Remington introduced the 7 1/2 'magnum' with its thicker cup (0.025 v 0.020") in the early 1950s along with the 222 Remington cartridge, the first modern 'high-pressure' 22 centrefire factory design. Those early 7 1/2s were chemically / explosively identical to the thin wall 6 1/2 model. The 7 1/2 became the 7 1/2BR with a slightly 'warmer' explosive pellet later when Remington introduced the .17 Remington cartridge and AFAIK the plain 7 1/2 variety dropped out of production a long time ago.
KMart
Gold $$ Contributor
In the primer tests ran by German Salazar, the pictures showed that Rem 71/2 and Winchester SRM showed to be the biggest flame throwers. The Wolf SRM had a relatively low flame compared to those 2. If the H322 is easy to light, you should be in good shape with the Wolf primers. I used them in a 223 with 8208. H4895 and Varget with no problems and good results.
Those tests go back a fair few years now and primers change over time. For instance, Winchester only makes a single Small Rifle model these days, the WSR, and it is a very different animal from the WSR of 12 or 15 years ago with a thinner cup and possibly different explosive characteristics. When I started handloading 223 seriously many years back an early purchase was Glen Zediker's first book, The Competitive AR15, according to which the WSR was the XTC shooter's favourite model - reliable, good ballistics, tough cup. That was the old 'silver' (nickel plated) WSR, then for some reason it was made much thinner / weaker in its more recent brass colour form, so is rather lacking in cartridges like the 223 when run hot.
Russian made primers (PMC brand at one time here in Europe, nowadays Murom; Wolf or Tula in the US, but all from the same manufacturer) change a great deal IME and apparently can vary considerably lot to lot too. As best as I can work out, there was a standard SR (KVB-223), a 'magnum' variant (KVB-5,56) and now there is a more recent variant called 'SR-223' on the Murom version's 100-ct sleeve, but as I've not seen a 5,000-ct cardboard 'outer' yet, don't know its 'KVB' product code. The basic model which originally had a deep copper colour cup, now bronze, is an excellent mild model, but was / is hopelessly weak for high pressure cartridges and very prone to blanking and cratering. The SRM version was chemically identical but with a thicker / tougher cup having been designed for 5.56mm military ammunition which in Europe is rated 4,300 bar / 62,366 psi - hence its 'KVB-5,56' coding. However Murom (the actual Russian company name based on the town it's located in) got feedback that many US AR shooters were having ignition problems with (a) recently introduced ball type powder(s), and the SR-223 is as per the 'magnum' cup wise but has a warmer pellet to give reliable ignition with whatever is the hard to ignite powder(s).
(I suspect that the powder in question is CFE-223 having found that it shouldn't be used in SRP 308 Lapua 'Palma' brass, some SR primers proving inadequate for 44-47gn charges here and producing serial hangfires and also the occasional complete misfire. This is the only powder I've tried in 308 that has suffered this problem - even the old Olin Corp W760 / H414 performed fine.)
When I shot Highpower I loaded my 600 yard ammo in Remington URBR cases. Loaded them with 7-1/2 Remington primers but I never used anything other than 4064. I had heard that hangfires were an issue with small primers in 308 though I never had any.
Thank you for that Riflewoman.
When the US Palma teams adopted the Lapua Palma case (in fact Lapua made the first few thousands at the teams' request), the US Rifle Teams' Long Range Forum was full of posts from people with Rem UBBR experience of 30, 40 years ago predicting it would all end in tears as they'd tried this and it simply didn't / doesn't work. (This became real hot under the collar, things typed in caps stuff!)
In the event something (more likely several things) seem to have changed from that time as in general the Palma case (and similar 308 based numbers) seem to have no problems. So maybe SR primers are 'better' nowadays, maybe powders are easier to ignite completely and reliably, maybe it's a different phase of the moon or Venus or something!
The caveats are:
1) temperature - I believe that once you get down to around 2, 3-deg C (ie high 30s F) and maybe a cold wind is blowing on the cartridge box, that some powders and combinations see reduced and degraded performance. This seems to be very grade, not make/type specific. eg I saw a deterioration in Viht N140 performance, but not N150 tested side by side in 308. CFE-223 is the only type I've come across so far that doesn't work in normal temperatures.
2) there will undoubtedly be some powder makes, grades, types that don't suit this system. Traditionally it was 'ball' types that needed hotter primers, but some makes now such as Eurenco's P B Clermont 'Ramshot' grades seem to be well suited to SR brass.
There are those on this forum who simply won't accept that small primer cases of 308 size and 45gn or higher charges will work for match use. I was assured on another thread that SR primers simply cannot ignite any cartridge larger than 6.5X47mm Lapua reliably. It was useless to quote that 90 percent plus of F-TR and Palma major matches and championships are won using Palma brass based handloads. (Did you know that Palma and F-TR shooters only ever compete in hot conditions? The author of that statement ought to come to Europe where he'd find Palma brass users who compete 12 months of the year and it does get chilly here in January and February even if it's not Wyoming or Montana.) .... and Alpha, Peterson and Lapua are all idiots as they go around introducing yet more SRP brass variants - 243, 260, Creedmoors, alongside 308. Ah, well .... you can lead a horse to water, but making it drink ...... and it's a free society! Alongside 308 I use necked-down 308 Palma brass in a 7mm-08 F rifle with 47 point something charges of N160 and have used up to 51gn N165 in test loads without ignition issues.
As with all primers though, there are 'horses for courses' and most people seem to be unaware of just how much of an effect primer make and model (maybe even production lot too) have on the performance of small to smallish cartridges. I gave away some new primed 6.5X47L brass with Rem 7 1/2BR primers in situ to a friend who has used Federal primers all his shooting life in both small and large form. The Rem primers transformed his load development that he'd been struggling with. So, going out and buying something because it's on offer and switching what you're priming your brass with may prove to be a bad move. At the least the load will likely need some re-tuning.
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