Machine Coolant/lube

[StraightPipes]

Im posting this here as a general request, it might belong in gunsmithing.

Going to improve my coolant system. Thinking about going to a vegetable based lubricant. Looking for something that wont go rancid or slime up in the sump. Its going to sit for times, so bacteria is another issue.

Something that doesnt use water, maybe mineral or vegetable? Semi synthetic? There are some that stink like shit in no time at all.

So whats out there that wont sludge, stink or eat my skin off and still lubricate properly?

 

[Lazydays]

I kinda gather from your post that you are wanting to use a flood coolant system instead of a spray mist. Am I correct? I personally prefer the direct spray mist units over the flood system on a lathe unless we are talking a CNC lathe that will be removing a lot metal during it's cycle time, and even then synthetics are kind of the norm here.

About the only serious uses for vegetable coolants in the last twenty years I've seen are in gear cutting and thread grinding (even that one is going away). But I think that the older coolants have a place with high speed tooling such as Rex 95 and Vasco. In synthetics, I've been around Trim CE all they way thru the latest and greatest stuff. Nothing cuts threads better than raw unmixed Trim CE painted on with a small paint brush! I'd avoid a lot of the Houghton coolants and most seem to be caustic, and are hard on coolant pumps and will eat o rings and epoxy up in a short time period. But the parts come out very clean. Castrol has a line of synthetic coolants that are very good (thinks it's them anyway). Never seen them spoil, and they seem to hold size very well (green and blue colored). Also do well in a mist spray directly ontop the insert. I maybe one of the few that has been caught up in the Mineral Seal fiasco! First off the stuff is a fire hazzard. Holds size very well in heavy machining operations. Never use it strait up as it dosn't lube well. We always dumped in a 10% ratio of very light spindle oil (usually Sunoco or Mobile DTE 24). Yet in experiments we have proven that several of the synthetics were just as accurate in final extremely close reaming ops with Mapol reamers. Now the down side with a lot of modern coolants (also vegtable) is that they all seem to be good at growing fungis!! Mineral Seal of course is the exception here. It finally reached a point that we would dump a gallon of bleach in with every 50 or 60 gallons of coolant, and then add a gallon once every two weeks. You don't want to be around the coolants with a fungis growing inside it. Plus the stuff will ruin a coolant system fast.

Now with a typical heavyduty hand lathe (say a Monarch or LeBlond Regal), I'd be using a spray mist out of a two gallon can. Grinder coolants seem to do well. For the flood system you can use whatever you like the best, but I'd stick with synthetics and a shot of bleach. If you can find a five gallon can of raw Trim CE; buy it! Nothing I've found does high pressure tools as well. Just leave it as it comes out of the can and paint it on the reamer or tap. Looks like snot when you apply it, but will not rub off the tool under pressure. Very high quality threads and multi stepped reamed holes for me.
gary

 

[Scott Harris]

I'm using Hangsterfers PC45 at the recommendation of Greg Tannel. I had all the same requirements as you: so far it is working great. You might need to call Hangsterfers HQ in NJ direct to determine where to buy it.

 

[StraightPipes]

Hey Lazydays, I see you know about the fungis and the stink etc. I was looking at Trim E206 and maybe some Blaser products.

Is the Trim CE going obsolete? You indicate it might be hard to find. Painting the work with a brush just might get me on the road quicker without all the mess. Been using Rigid Dark with a brush and doing ok. Might give Bob a call about some Viper Venom.

Regards

 

[StraightPipes]

Scotharr, I was looking at their stuff. Would you consider this an expensive lube? The biggest problem I have is from letting my sump sit too long without circulation.

 

[MrMajestic]

Machine Tool Coolants make for a thread like Bore Cleaners! I've been in the industry longer than I care to admit and now as a Shop Superintendent have learned never to advise or recommend coolants! ;D

 

[Lazydays]

Hey Lazydays, I see you know about the fungis and the stink etc. I was looking at Trim E206 and maybe some Blaser products.

Is the Trim CE going obsolete? You indicate it might be hard to find. Painting the work with a brush just might get me on the road quicker without all the mess. Been using Rigid Dark with a brush and doing ok. Might give Bob a call about some Viper Venom.

Regards

where I worked at we used it for quite awhile, and then made a switch over to the Houghton junk because they claimed it would do a better job. I made a lot of money off that coolant change over in overtime repairing machines! I saw it actually eat the seals and epoxy out of Sargent ball screws, and most every piece of viton it came in contact with (a Sargent ball screw is one of the best you can buy). They fired the guy that bought it after a couple years, and were repairing equipment even four years later. The next move was to another brand (can't remember the name) and it was much better but very prone to the fungis. Then we went with the Castrol stuff (think that's who it was), and things got a hundred percent better. But once the fungis gets in there, it's near impossible to kill. They actually sell a fugicide, that helps controll it, but completely kill it.

The Mineral Seal stuff came about from machining valve bodies that had some really stiff tolerance specs. The bores were similar to a rifle chamber, but strait with four steps. Max compound error was .0004" when all added up together, and the micro was in single digits. Tried all kinds of coolants and ended up with Mineral Seal and about 10% oil. Trim CE and the Castrol stuff worked well, but the luberication folks made us stick with the Mineral Seal. Had to completely rebuild four or five machine centers due to fires, but otherwise the machines did well with it. One machine had less than a hundred hours on it from a previous rebuild, and broke an indexable drill off during a cut. Burnt to the ground! Brother inlaw will be over tomorrow morning, and he'll know exactly what your looking for (I just build machines, and he's one of the best machinest I've ever seen). Another little thing you need to remember is that if most of your machine work is in stainless alloys; then you must remember that not every coolant is friendly with SS steel

I learned about painting raw Trim CE from an engineer I worked with. The guy was about a sharp as any I've ever been around. I was building a huge robotic cell, and I had to drill & tap about fifty or sixty 1.06-16tpi pads for the leveling screws. Trying to power tap the holes just pushed the threads right out as I ran the tap thru the hole (looked like they were reamed!) After messing up about a dozen blocks, Steve dropped by to see what was going on. He said not to try anymore till he got back. He comes back about fifteen minutes later with a coffee can full of this stuff that looked like snot! Had me paint the tap, and try another block. The threads were beautifull and the correct satin finish! I was stunned and he just laughed. Told me it was raw Trim before they added water to it. The threads were better than Triclorethelene 1.1.!!! Later on I had to drill and tap about 250 3/4-10 holes with a big Bux drill for the big base, and used that stuff again. It seemed to take less power and the holes were perfect. Next experiment was reaming holes, and the same results. Cleaned the parts up with hot water and soap with no issues.

Keep us posted on your findings as we always want to learn new things
gary

 

[Lazydays]

Scotharr, I was looking at their stuff. Would you consider this an expensive lube? The biggest problem I have is from letting my sump sit too long without circulation.

this might help you a little bit. Try agitating the coolant with low pressure air. All coolants want to be kept moving, and a little bit of compressed air will often help you out. But you also don't want a lot of air bubles in the liquid as it will cause the pump to cavitate
gary

 

[Lazydays]

Machine Tool Coolants make for a thread like Bore Cleaners! I've been in the industry longer than I care to admit and now as a Shop Superintendent have learned never to advise or recommend coolants! ;D

excellent advice sir! I can tell what to stay away from better than what to use most of the time. I came up with the green stuff that would spoil every weekend, and the vegetable oils that worked so well. But I find coolants easier than high grade lubrication oils and greases.
gary

 

[StraightPipes]

OOOOOOhhh Majestic one!!!!!!! They told me once I had no sense of adventure. You must have something to add, you been in this so long and all.

Bore Cleaners; if your not in the race and have 15mins.

for a total of 8ozs.= 50% Hoppes Elite/ 50% Thompson T -17

 

[Scott Harris]

Scotharr, I was looking at their stuff. Would you consider this an expensive lube? The biggest problem I have is from letting my sump sit too long without circulation.

this might help you a little bit. Try agitating the coolant with low pressure air. All coolants want to be kept moving, and a little bit of compressed air will often help you out. But you also don't want a lot of air bubles in the liquid as it will cause the pump to cavitate
gary

I specifically told the folks I talked to that my coolant would sit most of the time and be used infrequently: hobby. They said the Hangsterfers PC45 was a great choice. Well, it's been sitting for a few months without a ton of use and does not stink. Cheap is not a word I would use to describe it: $175 for 5 gallons. But, that is not expensive either if you want a good lubricant that meets all the other requirements you stated. Look, I'm no expert, but I know someone who has way more experience: Greg Tannel. He says it is the best lubricant he has found. There is one other he recommended....but Castrol bought the company and then shut down production....

 

[StraightPipes]

Scotharr, I will look into this. Thanks for your input.

Regards