M16 extractor for Remington action

[JSH]

I had an XP action that had not seen daylight for a long time. It was originally a 221 that bubba had reamed to 223. It had seen a hard life before I got it. A friend that had built numerous rifles tore it down and got everything squared up and trued. He has passed on.
This past spring I built a 6TCU rifle with the action. Had extraction problems, so I replaced the extractor. It was cutting notches in the brass when closing (yes it was in correctly) then it would it would not extract. Messed with the extractor until highly frustrated. Polished and stoned till no notch on closing but still no extraction.

Several folks said the replacement extractors can be hit and miss if they work, so ordered another.
This gets strange so bear with me.
Firing pin out.
Ejector removed.
Loaded round feeds nice and extracts.
Empty case fire formed brass will not extract.

Install ejector and it wants to notch the brass, it won’t extract.

Removed ejector, put firing pin back in, off to range.
No ejector. Fire a round and it won’t extract.
Put a loaded round in, close bolt, open bolt it extracts loaded round.

It is not a pressure issue. Take a cleaning rod to push out empties and or a brass dental pick and the come right out. Or open bolt, point barrel up and brass falls right out.

To the two guys I trust that have looked at it, the original smith may have taken to much of a cut on the inside of the bolt.

We are to the point of cleaning it up, make a bushing and silver solder that in and install a mini 16 extractor.

I am all ears if any of you may have somthing else I can try with the stock extractor.

Is there anything we should be aware of if we install the M 16 extractor?

Thanks
Jeff

 

[Ggmac]

Has it ever extracted a fired 6 TCU case ?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Chamber issue. Get it polished correctly by a good gunsmith

 

[JSH]

Ggmac, yes with the second extractor

Dusty, I honestly don’t know how to take a lot of your post and comments. I will play nice.

I can most assure you it isn’t a polish issue. There is zero resistance on a fired case. I did take ejector and extractor out, fired a round, opened bolt, raised the muzzle and empty slid out with no problem.

I will forward your comment, I think he will find it humerous.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Ggmac, yes with the second extractor

Dusty, I honestly don’t know how to take a lot of your post and comments. I will play nice.

I can most assure you it isn’t a polish issue. There is zero resistance on a fired case. I did take ejector and extractor out, fired a round, opened bolt, raised the muzzle and empty slid out with no problem.

I will forward your comment, I think he will find it humerous.

When you extract a sized case fine but a fired one doesnt come out your chamber finish is wrong. Wasnt trying to ruffle feathers, but the way you talked about the original guy taking too much off the bolt, etc thats why i suggested someone else. Didnt even catch you had another guy trying to figure it out. Im sure he will be able to fix it. The pretty, shiny chamber is what most strive for but sometimes it doesnt work

 

[tmwinds]

Chamber issue. Get it polished correctly by a good gunsmith

I wouldn't discount Dusty's suggestion that the chamber may be the issue." A CORRECTLY" polished chamber normally wouldn't be glass smooth. When the round is fired you want the case head pushed against the bolt face and for the brass to be expanded against a somewhat rough chamber wall and be held in place. This will hold the extractor in the groove. When you say a unfired round extracts fine and a fired round will fallout when the barrel is tipped it leads me to believe the chamber wall may be to smooth. I could be totally wrong but I'm sure a good gunsmith can figure it out.

 

[DaveTooley]

Lot of things running through my head right now. Notches on the rim are more common with that size bolt face than any other. Smaller diameter means stiffer. Stiffer means more cutting pressure on the rim. Concerning the failure to extract. With a stripped bolt recreate your problem scenario. If it won't extract a case bump the bolt forward and see if it will pick up the case. With the bolt in hand insert several cases into the bolt face and see if something looks out of whack. This all sounds like clearance problem. One question. Are the primers backing out of the fired cases?

 

[Ledd Slinger]

When it fails to eject a fired round, do you see marks on the rim of the case? It takes very little force to removed a virgin or properly sized piece of brass. Fired brass requires much better grip and more force.

Your bolt face counterbore may not be concentric to the bore/chamber. The extractor cut could be wrong as well as you suggested.

A mini 16 extractor will perform 10x better than a factory rem extractor any day of the week so it's always a good choice. Just need to make sure you dont have a different underlying problem or you might just be putting a bandaid on a wound that needs stitches

 

[RWO]

Is there anything we should be aware of if we install the M 16 extractor?

Thanks
Jeff

See this thread for some commentary on M16 extractor installation: http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?101977-Barrel-tennon-counterbore

RWO

 

[Dusty Stevens]

See this thread for some commentary on M16 extractor installation: http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?101977-Barrel-tennon-counterbore

RWO

Hard to imagine a 308 going off in a 270 chamber. Even harder to believe a couple drop in parts and it was on its way

 

[GenePoole]

If the bolt nose expanded to seal against the tenon, I'd think that the bolt would be ruined as well.

 

[JSH]

Dusty, point taken. I mean no offense, a lot of times things typed are taken different than meant.

Tmwinds, I had thought the same thing on over polishing. A highly polished chamber won’t let the brass do its job. I am going to take extractor and ejector out and fire a round and try that again. It’s hard to tell if the extractor is pulling it out of the chamber and then dropping it, that is why it falls out of the chamber.

Dave Tooley will try yours as well. No flat primers, R7 1/2. No hard bolt lift or any other pressure signs. Not close to touching the throat either.

Ledd Slinger the only mark of the brass is where the extractor will hit once in a while. All brass is virgin and fire form loads. RP 223 brass fire forming to 6TCU.

Thanks to all. A good bunch here with a vast amount of knowledge. I will try to check everything mentioned tonight short of firing any rounds. Bathroom remodel going on so it takes away from my time.

Some things mentioned I have checked but I am going to check again.
Thanks again.
Jeff