Lyman Bore Pic - Input needed

[AKShooter]

Hello

Well, this thing is either the best thing I've bought, or the worst, LOL

I've been using it mainly to better my cleaning procedure. I do have a question on a picture I took in this bore.

Rifle barrel is a Krieger, chambered in 300wsm, Rifle has about 80 rounds through it. On this one, I was just going with the shoot and clean, I did not do the whole shoot one round and clean, etc. So the rifle has been cleaned only about 3 times. Those times I was just using wipe-out.

What you are seeing is a cleaning with KG products, I used the carbon cleaner, then the copper cleaner. Testing different products at the moment.

Then, I read the Krieger article about barrel break-in. Think I may have screwed up here, and should have followed their schedule. It basically saws the whole 1 and clean deal, and makes a good case about the possibility of getting excessive copper from the jacket while the throat is being fired in

So what do folks think? The copper seems a bit extreme to me? Thinking about coming back with some Iosso paste, and getting it out, basically trying to start over, and remove the copper build-up, then go from there.

Rifle shoots great. This is my first bore scope by the way.

Thoughts?

 

[LHSmith]

Shooting the first shot after cleaning with a dry bore ? That will always cause copper fouling.

 

[Zero333]

KG copper remover doesn't work good for removing heavy copper fouling.

Hoppes Benchrest copper remover is a good one, same as butches bore shine.

Don't worry about breaking in a hand lapped barrel. If anything, shoot 3 and clean then shoot 5 and clean, then you're done.

 

[jds holler]

I was just wondering if anyone is ever really happy about the way their bore looks with one of these cams.? jd

 

[AKShooter]

Thanks for the input. Approaching the question slightly differently. From the picture, would this be considered heavy copper? From those who have looked at a bunch on barrels.

Those with scopes, are you looking to get pretty much all the copper out in your cleanings?

Do you leave a bit, and on the black, I don't suppose I would ever get everything out, how far do you take it though?

Just trying to fine tune my cleaning, whats good enough

 

[Gina1]

KG-12 left in over night or JB bore shine with Krol oil. (( be sure cleaning rod rotates ()

 

[rduckwor]

Looking at the bore on a rifle that is shooting well may be the worst possible thing you can do.

Very few of us have the experience to know what we are looking at and in this case, ignorance is NOT bliss.

Shoot it, clean it, and it will tell you when it is done.

RMD

 

[AKShooter]

I'm not going ot get hung up on it, if it shoots, I'll shoot it

Below is the section from Krieger regarding barrel break-in I referenced above. I fired 20 rounds without cleaning on my first outing. Was thinking that might have started me down this path. I'll get it out, then start back from scratch and monitor it. But I'll be back to "just shoot it" as long as its performing well


"Because the lay of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, very little is done to the bore during break-in, but the throat is another story. When your barrel is chambered, by necessity there are reamer marks left in the throat that are across the lands, i.e. across the direction of the bullet travel. In a new barrel they are very distinct; much like the teeth on a very fine file.

When the bullet is forced into the throat, copper dust is removed from the jacket material and released into the gas which at this temperature and pressure is actually a plasma. The copper dust is vaporized in this plasma and is carried down the barrel. As the gas expands and cools, the copper comes out of suspension and is deposited in the bore. This makes it appear as if the source of the fouling is the bore when it is actually for the most part the new throat.

If this copper is allowed to stay in the bore, and subsequent bullets and deposits are fired over it, copper which adheres well to itself, will build up quickly and may be difficult to remove later. So when we break in a barrel, our goal is to get the throat “polished without allowing copper to build up in the bore. This is the reasoning for the fire-one-shot-and-clean procedure."

 

[Steve Ladino]

Yes, dry bores copper up.

 

[coford]

The pic does not show excessive copper. It looks very normal. Do not kill yourself trying to clean it perfectly as that is a waste of time. I enjoy my borescope and what it lets me see but you have to understand that you may do more harm than good trying to get every speck of copper out of the bore. Carbon concerns me much more. One thing I like about being able to scope my bore is being able to keep track of carbon in the chamber and just beyond. I would worry about that more than the little bit of copper you are seeing. One thing I've noticed is the carbon in the middle of my barrel and the copper right at the muzzle (both normal). Enjoy your borescope but don't over analyze what is going on.

 

[CaptainMal]

As said above, that is not excessive but it is there. I also have and use Lyman Borescope.

One wipe with some Barnes CR-10 and that's gone. Kroil after and you are good to go.

 

[watercam]

That's not copper fouled. I once picked up a Marlin 30-30 that had so much copper in it the corners of the grooves/lands were filled in with copper - sort of polygonal shaped. So much copper that it was curling out from the muzzle and over hanging the crown. Since it was California I assumed the owner was shooting copper bullets to accommodate the lead-free hunting rule there and just did not know how to remove the fouling. It was scary to look at and can't imagine any other way to remove it all except electronically.

 

[Jeff A]

KG copper remover doesn't work good for removing heavy copper fouling.

Hoppes Benchrest copper remover is a good one, same as butches bore shine.

Don't worry about breaking in a hand lapped barrel. If anything, shoot 3 and clean then shoot 5 and clean, then you're done.

The thing to remember about breaking in a hand lapped barrel is that the chamber is machined AFTER the hand lapping, leaving the chance for burrs and sharp edges to make copper. This became very evident to me after I had a barrel that had already been broken in, re-throated. It then made plenty of copper for a while.

 

[AckleymanII]

You are seeing two things

Copper fouling

Cutter marks from a cut rifle barrel

Use Montana Extreme copper killer on a wool mop, let it soak, copper will be gone. This products works faster than Sweets, CR-10, Hoppes copper remover, and Butches is slow as grand ma.

Due to the cutter marks, coppering will continue for the life of the barrel.

I have a Hawkeye and a Lyman

 

[snakepit]

I have a Hawkeye and a Lyman

How about giving us a comparison of the Hawkeye and the Lyman. Do you have a preference of one over the other?

 

[AckleymanII]

The additional software and camera with the hawkeye is another $1200.

The Hawkeye is a true optical image, tad bit less magnification. The lyman is a digital image. Some things look weird in the lyman for this very reason.

The Lyman is a very good tool, make no mistake about that fact. I wish that everyone could have one to check their cleaning tecnhiques and barrel condition.

 

[waldo1979]

I see copper in your pic. Try Boretech eliminator.

I also have a Lyman bore scope