lugs galling on BAT MB bolt

[lrgoodger]

Anyone had trouble with lugs galling on a BAT action? My BAT MB has only 1400 rounds on it and the lugs on the bolt are galled terribly. I noticed the first signs of galling about 500 rounds ago. I'm not very happy about this. I have cleaned and lubed the action every 50 rounds and it shouldn't be doing this. The action was purchased from Bruno Shooters in April.

My first custom action was by Pierce Engineering in Lansing, MI and I had a .243 barrel on it. I ran 2100 rounds through the .243 barrel and replaced it with a 6BR. I've run 1300 rounds through it as a 6 for a total of 3400 rounds on the action and the bolt lugs still look new. I used the same cleaning and lubing regimen of every 50 rounds on the Pierce. Why is the BAT not holding up as well?

 

[JRS]

That's probably the biggest drawback of stainless steel. They are much more prone to galling than their chrome-moly counterparts.

 

[lrgoodger]

That's probably the biggest drawback of stainless steel. They are much more prone to galling than their chrome-moly counterparts.

You are right. I had forgotten that the Pierce is Chrome-moly.

So, what can be done about the BAT? Can the lugs and their mating surfaces be re-ground? I assume that would mean changing the headspace on the barrels.

 

[BoydAllen]

Just out of curiosity, what lube did you use on the lugs?

 

[lrgoodger]

Just out of curiosity, what lube did you use on the lugs?

I use Tetra Gun Grease, carried and reccommended by my local gun shop.

 

[ThunderDownUnder]

The best grease I have used for lugs (and barrel threads) is CRC Engine Assembly Lube which comes in a small tube with an applicator suited for applying to bolt action lugs. I have used it for years without any problems and if you follow the link below and read the first paragraph it clearly states it prevents galling. http://www.crc.co.nz/Automotive-Lubricants--Penetrants-Specialty-Lubricants/p1/AntiSeize-Engine-Assembly-Lube-id8b8867a-ce4b-4add-86b8-db6a66d63ff7-6551.htm

Ian

 

[BoydAllen]

Well... Tetra is off my list. I suggest that you ask BAT what they recommend, both for the fix, and for grease. Obviously The Tetra is not suitable. I have never seen anyone use it for this application. Does anyone at the gun shop shoot a BAT? I don't believe that I have ever seen any of the greases that are packaged and sold to be used on bolt action lugs at a gun shop, and they tend to sell what they have.

 

[fdshuster]

I've always believed that Tetra is too light to be used on bolt lugs. I have several tubes of it, and carefully knead and squeeze it in an attempt to mix it, and it comes out in liquid form many times.

Been using good old G.I. Lubriplate on my bolt lugs, including the Bat & so far, everything is fine, and the receiver lugs are cleaned & inspected everytime a barrel is removed on the switch-barrels.

If you contact Bat, please post their reply for those of us who are concerned.

 

[flatlander]

I don't believe I'd consider using tetra on any of my bolts, especially since there are so many other greases designed to work under extreme pressure. I've used plain old moly-fortified automotive grease with good results, and now use NECO Moly-Slide on most of my rifles.

I've got four BAT SS 3-lug actions, and have not seen any galling in any of them while using moly-slide. Dittos for the stainless Nesika on my Palma rifle.

 

[JRS]

The bolt grease used on the BAT was/is made by Jet Lube.
You can probably find it running a search for jetlube products.

 

[Jeffvn]

When I talked with them about the risk of galling in the desert I was told that I could treat the action of the bolt or both. I went with both. and now run a melonited action, and a ion bonded bolt (BAT recommended these specific process for these specific parts). Neither is silver anymore, but that was the least of my concerns.

JeffVN

 

[tightneck]

The bolt on BAT's is not the same material as the action body. All BAT bolts are made from 4140. The fault in this case is 100% on the lube used. I have BAT's that have 10's of thousands of round on them. Not a single one has ever shown the propensity to gall. I've used many different types of high pressure grease over the years, and I've now settled on one impregnated with Moly.

 

[jo191145]

Very informative post.
Not to hijack the thread but I just got my first Bat.
I've been using Shooters Choice High Tec grease for years on all my rifles.
Anyone think its not quite good enough for the Bat or just in general?

 

[LongRanger]

You asked....

"So, what can be done about the BAT? Can the lugs and their mating surfaces be re-ground"?

Try this first before going any further. Several years ago my Nesika lugs galled...had been using a moly-based grease. After greasing with a white lithium grease from Auto Zone, I cycled the bolt, maybe a hundred times, and it started freeing up. At the range, it functioned more normally again after a few firings. One good consequence of the galling it that the lugs hold more grease than before. When I later sent the rifle to the gunsmith for rebarreling, I had him lap the lugs.

WARNING! DO NOT ATTEMPT TO LAP THE LUGS-RECEIVER MATING SURFACES YOURSELF OR YOU WILL SURELY SCREW UP THE SURFACES AND HEADSPACE. THIS IS A "GUNSMITH ONLY" OPERATION AND INVOLVES MORE THAN MERELY PUTTING SOME COMPOUND ON THE LUGS AND CYCLING THE BOLT.

Let us know how you come out.


Frank B.

 

[lrgoodger]

Maybe I should have just used the anti-seize for bolt lube. The machinist at Pierce Engineering emphasized several times when he chambered my barrels that I put plenty of anti-seize on the barrel threads every time I swapped it. He said if I didn't, the stainless threads would seize and I would never get the barrel out. I never thought about the same scenario applying to the bolt lugs.

Now, I feel like I was let down on this by TWO sources (three if you include Pierce). I'm not a machinist, so I didn't know this except for what Pierce told me. When I received the action, there was no paper work at all except for the sales slip. There should have been a document entitled 'Care and Feeding of a Precision Stainless Steel Action' (or something similar) from BAT. Lacking that, Bruno Shooters should have said something (I'm sure Bruno knows this).

Having worked for large corporations who are acutely aware of liability and knowing the story behind the warning label on power mowers (someone actually picked up a running mower and tried to trim a hedge with it), I would have thought notes would be included with gun parts detailing things you shouldn't do, like using the wrong lube. I guess galled lugs are not enough of a safety issue.

Thanks for all of the replies. I will definitely be contacting BAT about this and I will post their response.

Ron

 

[BoydAllen]

Anti-seize is not the material that you want. This is really simple. Buy some bolt grease from a specialty benchrest supplier.

 

[markr]

Maybe I should have just used the anti-seize for bolt lube. The machinist at Pierce Engineering emphasized several times when he chambered my barrels that I put plenty of anti-seize on the barrel threads every time I swapped it. He said if I didn't, the stainless threads would seize and I would never get the barrel out. I never thought about the same scenario applying to the bolt lugs.

Now, I feel like I was let down on this by TWO sources (three if you include Pierce). I'm not a machinist, so I didn't know this except for what Pierce told me. When I received the action, there was no paper work at all except for the sales slip. There should have been a document entitled 'Care and Feeding of a Precision Stainless Steel Action' (or something similar) from BAT. Lacking that, Bruno Shooters should have said something (I'm sure Bruno knows this).

Having worked for large corporations who are acutely aware of liability and knowing the story behind the warning label on power mowers (someone actually picked up a running mower and tried to trim a hedge with it), I would have thought notes would be included with gun parts detailing things you shouldn't do, like using the wrong lube. I guess galled lugs are not enough of a safety issue.

Thanks for all of the replies. I will definitely be contacting BAT about this and I will post their response.

Ron

Atta Boy....sue them and run the price up a few hundred more dollars each!
Unles your headspace is set tight enough that you have to move the brass .001 or more while closing the bolt, or your loads so hot that you must use a cheater bar on the bolt handle to open it up, any quality grease at
frequent intervals should protect the lugs from galling.
I use Lucas Red & Tacky in minute but frequent intervals and all my Bat and Panda lugs are shinier than the day I got them.

 

[Bert]

One thing that hasn't been covered yet is how much you are moving the shoulder back on your rounds? And i would agree there is very little info that comes with any custom gun stuff but that is the way it is with all the people making custom gun parts. If you ask the right questions they will give you the info. They are not trying to hide anything or keep info from anyone they want everyone that purchases there stuff to be happy that is how they stay in business. So i wouldn't be so quick to throw anyone under the buss they assume anyone that spends that kind of money on an action knows how to take care of it. It doesn't take long on this site to realise that there aren't any of the custom actions that guys are buying that they aren't happy with. Get the lugs fixed and move on with what ever grease the manufacture says.

 

[lrgoodger]

Well, galling or no galling the BAT won it's 5th straight match today and tied for first on my sixth match back. The galling doesn't seem to affect accuracy. I would have guessed otherwise after reading how important it is to have both lugs fully engaging. Having mis-matched lugs is a known source of flyers.

I don't have another match for 3 weeks, so I pulled the barrel after the match today (won the Hillsdale, MI Tri-State). Last time I had the barrel off there was no sign of galling, but that was 800 rounds ago. The surfaces inside the action are galled the same as the ones on the bolt. The galling is not so bad that it has affected bolt lift, so maybe I can do something to smooth it out a bit without changing the dimensions. We'll see what BAT has to say when they get back from the holiday Tuesday.

I've certainly learned my lesson about taking the advice of gun shop owners who sell only factory stuff. The cumulative wealth of knowledge frequenting this site is invaluable and is where I have been asking my questions for a while now. Thanks to everyone who has chimed in.

Ron

 

[panzer075]

just got my first Bat action, 3LL, and I want to get it melonited and ion bonded..anyone have any suggestions on companies that deal with gun parts actions??

Chris