Lubricating the bullet/neck with HBN coated bullets

[SteveOak]

Some people think that not cleaning brass provides a convenient lubrication which reduces the force needed to seat a bullet. I get it and agree.

For those of you shooting HBN coated bullets that clean cases in such a way as the carbon is removed, do you use any sort of lube inside the case neck or on the bullet? Maybe Imperial dry lube?

Does the HBN coating on the bullet suffice? Or is additional lubrication required/advised?

 

[T-shooter]

Can't say it's all bad but read my experiences and decide for yourself. At least test the product you use.
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/hbn-not-for-me.3931997/

 

[Bob3700]

Can't say it's all bad but read my experiences and decide for yourself. At least test the product you use.
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/hbn-not-for-me.3931997/

I have used dry graphite powder as well as moly powder to coat the inside of the necks when shooting moly bullets. When shooting HBN coated bullets, I q-tip the inside of the necks with HBN powder. Bullets seat easily after that.

 

[rardoin]

snip.... When shooting HBN coated bullets, I q-tip the inside of the necks with HBN powder. Bullets seat easily after that.

My experience also using Imperial dry lube/media (graphite) prior to seating Tubbs HBN coated DTAC's as well as my own bullets coated with their kit. They would seat very consistently and easily.

 

[jr600yd]

I use SS pins to clean my cases. I shoot Moly Bullets. Never had a problem. Seating force is very consistent.

 

[vitali1342]

I use Neolube NO.2 in some cases ( I do remove all carbon from the inside of the case), friction reduced to consistent 40 lb seating pressure.

 

[JMayo]

I spray the cases before sizing. The necks get some in there. Consistent seating pressure, 30 on all of them, Down from 75 without spraying, on my gauge.

 

[SteveOak]

My experience also using Imperial dry lube/media (graphite) prior to seating Tubbs HBN coated DTAC's as well as my own bullets coated with their kit. They would seat very consistently and easily.

That was the answer I was hoping for.

Thanks!

 

[SteveOak]

I use Neolube NO.2 in some cases ( I do remove all carbon from the inside of the case), friction reduced to consistent 40 lb seating pressure.

Neolube #2 looks to be a graphite/alcohol slurry. Interesting.

I will use a HBN/alcohol slurry in the barrel.

 

[T-shooter]

I have used dry graphite powder as well as moly powder to coat the inside of the necks when shooting moly bullets. When shooting HBN coated bullets, I q-tip the inside of the necks with HBN powder. Bullets seat easily after that.

I use the Imperial graphite lube all the time in the case necks. I had had good experiencies with it. I only tried one brand and one particle size of HBN. It's a lengthly post but there is a lot of info in there. The worst case was new brass that had no carbon in the necks. Dipping the necks into the HBN powder and having coated the bullets in a tumbler with BB's made the bullets stick like welding them. Over 50 lbs of force on the end of the press handle to break them loose when pulling them out. They went in harder too but were really tight reversing the direction. These had no more than .002" interference fit in new brass that had been annealed and resized. I wish everyone luck that's using it. As for me, never again. Imagine a borderline hot load coupled with the bullets sticking in the necks. Things could have got ugly!

 

[SteveOak]

This subject keeps coming up again and again... and again. Neck tension is important so I get it. But, it seems that there is a tendency to add complexity to things when it is not needed. Why add extra steps to your reloading process when there are simpler solutions? Car makers produce better cars by turning 1,000 parts into 500 parts ...redesigning something that consists of 4 pieces into a single part. This is a core part of their quality improvement. I believe we should be doing the same thing with our reloading process: turn ten steps into five steps that get the same thing done...with more consistency because there are less steps to screw up.

So, I generally frown upon proposals to add more steps when there are simpler solutions. Want better "neck tension" consistency? First step is to determine how you will measure "better." Then go try all your hair-brained ideas, but TEST it. In this case, I suggest using standard deviation of 20+ shots over a good chrono (MS or LR) as your test.

My hypothesis: You will get best results (lowest SDs), by simply dry-tumbling your brass in a mixture of 1/2 rice and 1/2 corn-cob for 4 hours. That's it, no other steps. I have tested this and that's my final answer. Let us know what your test results are....no opinions needed.

PS. HBN does not add lubricity in same way that carbon in the neck does.

I agree with you that neck tension is important but I think you missed the point. The topic is not "How to use lube to seating force", the topic is "Lubricating the bullet/neck with HBN coated bullets" but you didn't seem to mention a method that you use with HBN coated bullets.

 

[Carolina Hillbilly]

I use Imperial Case wax on a q-tip inside the neck after charging and before seating. It makes seating smooth and consistent on clean, annealed brass that is normally pretty sticky.

 

[KMart]

In some cases, I use 3in1 Dry Film Lubricant from Lowes. Wipe it inside the neck with a Q tip and the first one is dry by the time you finish the rest.

I looked up Neolube #2 for pricing and was surprised. From one supplier it was $19 for 2 oz. From another it was $34 for the same container. Another supplier wanted a $122 Haz Mat fee as they classified as Hazardous material.

 

[searcher]

If you don't want to coat your bullets - I'd just use the NECO beads and powdered graphite. Dip and turn like you might for a sizing operation using an expander ball. If one uses so much neck tension that that ANY product creates a difference of even a pound or so, one is probably using far more tension than they need. I read T-Shooters post entirely - and from those pictures, there is more going on there than HBN-related troubles. Personally, I have used moly since NECO first came out with it (20+ years?) and HBN for four and have nothing but positive results - but that is coating bullets - not trying to treat necks. I do think the moly works better at keeping the carbon levels in the bore lower in extended shooting sessions than HBN. The HBN also is like running your hand over a freshly waxed car, very smooth, yet it will "grab" your fingers when pressed hard. While never concerned as T-Shooter is about bullet release (I don't use anywhere that much bullet tension), I WAS concerned as to how the bore might react. Many thousands of rounds down several barrels, many bore-scope checks - and chronograph comparisons, I find no perceivable wear cause specifically by the HBN, no extra difficulty in cleaning (quite the contrary), and velocities which are within an average of 20 fps less than moly in my .223's. That makes them faster than without coating - though not quite as fast as moly. That suggests greater "slipperiness" than moly after taking the bore ride. So - what might work at high speed may not work as well at low speed, especially when under the pressure of high neck tension as T-Shooter has possibly found. Surely - if HBN increased the wear rate of a barrel - mine would all have been toast long before now. My results are quite contrary. This is not to say that my results prevail - or those of T-Shooter. Read a lot of these posts and formulate from the majority.