LR BR folks - bushings vs mandrel

[Ccrider]

Great info there.
Mr Wheeler, could you be so kind as to list your reloading operations in the sequence you perform them?
This week I have been looking at this very question. The picture is today's testing.

Distance?

 

[Bat Rastard]

Distance?

100yds.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Great info there.
Mr Wheeler, could you be so kind as to list your reloading operations in the sequence you perform them?
This week I have been looking at this very question. The picture is today's testing.

I take the as fired case and apply sizing wax with my fingers and run it into a full length bushing die. I wipe the wax off with a micro fiber cloth. I seat a primer by feel. I brush the inside of the neck with a stiff nylon brush unless its a ppc. Then I dump powder and seat the bullet with a wilson inline die and a K&M arbor press. Thats it. I trim and chamfer as needed, but I run long enough chambers its rarely needed.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I take the as fired case and apply sizing wax with my fingers and run it into a full length bushing die. I wipe the wax off with a micro fiber cloth. I seat a primer by feel. I brush the inside of the neck with a stiff nylon brush unless its a ppc. Then I dump powder and seat the bullet with a wilson inline die and a K&M arbor press. Thats it. I trim and chamfer as needed, but I run long enough chambers its rarely needed.

Alex, you‘re breaking hearts here!!

 

[Matt_3479]

Not a long range bench shooter, but I also never found the results of mandrels to make a difference. So bushing only for me. I save the mandrels for dented necks then back to bushing to keep consistency

 

[X Count]

I take the as fired case and apply sizing wax with my fingers and run it into a full length bushing die. I wipe the wax off with a micro fiber cloth. I seat a primer by feel. I brush the inside of the neck with a stiff nylon brush unless its a ppc. Then I dump powder and seat the bullet with a wilson inline die and a K&M arbor press. Thats it. I trim and chamfer as needed, but I run long enough chambers its rarely needed.

With no turn brass and no mandrel you must be getting some variation in neck tension. Do you sort by seating force or do you find the residual carbon is enough lubrication that difference is minimal?

 

[marchx]

@Alex Wheeler you do not perform all the neckturning-mandrel-voodoo stuff. How do you make sure your rifle is in tune? How can I tell my rifle is in tune?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

With no turn brass and no mandrel you must be getting some variation in neck tension. Do you sort by seating force or do you find the residual carbon is enough lubrication that difference is minimal?

I'll use my ppc as an example because its my first no turn competition chamber. I have always turned BRA and PPC brass up until this year. I stopped sorting anything years ago. Not because it doent matter, but because Im just not doing it. I use good components and have been able to achieve the accuracy I need without sorting. But in the case of this no turn ppc, the brass is as it came from Lapua. I have not even trimmed or chamfered it. Its not been sorted or cleaned in any way. If its holding me back I would have to shoot it in a tunnel because I cant aim small enough or read flags well enough to be able to tell the difference. It shoots better than I can now. I just chambered a no turn BRA, but based on feedback from customers I expect similar results. All of the hunting and elr stuff I have done is all no turn and I dont sort. I spend my time on the tune and its worked for me. Im not saying not to do the sorting and uniforming, if it gives you confidence and you like doing it then do it 100%. Except primer pockets, maybe leave those alone

 

[Oklahoma Jim]

Except primer pockets, maybe leave those alone

I've seen that comment a few times, but I would like to know why folks say that. Just trying to learn. I usually uniform primer pockets on new brass with a K&M tool.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Just shoot some uniformed vs non and see how they shoot.

 

[Tesoro]

Bush only vs bush then mandrel: if you want to skip a step and not double work your neck brass then maybe you can try uniforming-shaving the necks of your new brass to what ever +/- tolerance is appropriate. Only have to do this once. And with some quality brass batches it is not even necessary.

 

[Oklahoma Jim]

Just shoot some uniformed vs non and see how they shoot.

Will do. I have some Lapua 300WSM brass. 100 have been uniformed and 100 are virgin. I'm guessing I won't see much, if any difference, but I'll post after I check.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I've seen that comment a few times, but I would like to know why folks say that. Just trying to learn. I usually uniform primer pockets on new brass with a K&M tool.

I quit long time ago “uniforming” primer pockets.

And yes, through the years I have done a lot of testing with my Rail Gun concerning primer pockets, weighing in charges, primer seating, and just about everything that gets a lot of attention on this Forum.

That is why I have always said that extreme accuracy shooting, (as far as the rifle and components are concerned), comes down to barrels, bullets, and tuning.

Which, as it turns out, is the most difficult aspect of the accuracy equation to solve.

 

[Ccrider]

Have any of your ever had a hangfire from a dirty primer pocket?

 

[WSnyder]

Have any of your ever had a hangfire from a dirty primer pocket?

No

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Have any of your ever had a hangfire from a dirty primer pocket?

Nope. Actually shot some of my smallest groups ever. And I pay real close to odd shots, I dont believe in fliers. Theres always a reason.

 

[tom]

Do you guys aka 600-1k BR shooters do bushing-only for sizing the necks when you F/L size, or do you set the final neck ID with a mandrel?

@tom @Northridge @Alex Wheeler

I've had success using a mandrel for final adjustment, but am back to just finding the preferred bushing (even on no turns). I believe you can get to the same place either way, with the added possibilities of problems with the extra step of mandreling. Watch for, and take steps not to gaul/create groves in your neck ID.

Tom

 

[jds holler]

I like the direction that this is going, and would like to take it a little further.

How about the theory that "neck tension" in general, isn't that important to accuracy -- except for the consideration that too much may damage the bullet upon seating? ie, enough tension to hold the bullet in place during handling and until the round is fired. jd

 

[J.D.Erwin]

I take the as fired case and apply sizing wax with my fingers and run it into a full length bushing die. I wipe the wax off with a micro fiber cloth. I seat a primer by feel. I brush the inside of the neck with a stiff nylon brush unless its a ppc. Then I dump powder and seat the bullet with a wilson inline die and a K&M arbor press. Thats it. I trim and chamfer as needed, but I run long enough chambers its rarely needed.

^^^^ what Alex said is all ive every done

 

[Bronsin]

I like the direction that this is going, and would like to take it a little further.

How about the theory that "neck tension" in general, isn't that important to accuracy -- except for the consideration that too much may damage the bullet upon seating? ie, enough tension to hold the bullet in place during handling and until the round is fired. jd

That hasn't been my experience at all. Quite the opposite actually.