Lowering ES via primers-test

[savageshooter86]

Not scientific but showed me what I was hoping for. My 284 was shooting sort of erratic and highost ES. Over testing using BR2 primers ES is low to mid 30s. Even across two different powders.

So today i dug up some different primers and went to range. All same charge and seating depth. Only difference was brand of primer.

Test was shot at 484 yards. No flags just shot. 5 shot group circled was sighter shots






The Wolf and Tula shot best

Not saying these are great groups but did get some data

 

[BenPerfected]

How many shots in each group?
Ben

 

[savageshooter86]

How many shots in each group?
Ben

5 shots. Except the BR2. I know what it usually does and what ES it gives. It repeated almost exactly for those

 

[BenPerfected]

Nice shooting Larry, what was the powder and bullet you used in this test?
Ben

 

[savageshooter86]

Nice shooting Larry, what was the powder and bullet you used in this test?
Ben

H4350 and Berger 180 Hybrid.

 

[JohnKielly]

Must admit that those Russian primers seem to get me out of trouble a lot. I think maybe it's because they are less explosive than some. German Salazar always said that he got the best results from the least powerful primers that would light the powder charge effectively.

Maybe that's another reason for the small primer mid capacity cases coming into favour.

 

[savageshooter86]

Sucks I only have about 2200 Russian primers left

 

[cmillard]

that is all I shoot--wolf and tula

 

[jlow]

It’s a tough test to do since even though everything is held constant except for the primer, if the primer change the location of the accuracy node, there is a reasonable chance that it might change the powder charge that gives you the lowest ES/SD. As we know, even using only Russina primers, there are charges that will result in better and/or worst ES/SD so really unless one do a complete evaluation of charge weight with each primer, you really don’t know for sure where you are when primers are changed.

Regardless, interesting data and I am a believer in Russian primers and that is all I use.

 

[gotcha]

Sucks I only have about 2200 Russian primers left

Andrew, Give me a shout when you need Wolf/Tula .............. I've got a source up here

 

[MrBottleneck]

Interesting test Larry.

Not sure if others have read this article but, it is also very interesting.
http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=1471

 

[fastarget]

Wolf and Tula being near impossible to find, I am curious whether anyone has compared Sellier & Bellot primers' performance to Wolf

 

[Jay Christopherson]

Not scientific but showed me what I was hoping for. My 284 was shooting sort of erratic and highost ES. Over testing using BR2 primers ES is low to mid 30s. Even across two different powders.

So today i dug up some different primers and went to range. All same charge and seating depth. Only difference was brand of primer.

Test was shot at 484 yards. No flags just shot. 5 shot group circled was sighter shots



The Wolf and Tula shot best

Not saying these are great groups but did get some data

Don't get hung up on ES... I've done similar primer tests and the best ES doesn't necessarily (rarely even?) translate to the best performance on target, even at long range.

 

[memilanuk]

True... but I have experienced when a load that had been shooting okay went to hell in a hand basket... and found through testing that a new lot of CCI 450s that still shot decent groups @ 300yds had an ES/SD of 41/18. Tested BR4s and Wolf small rifle primers, which had ES/SDs of 11/4-5... loaded up enough rounds of the Wolf and BR4s to shoot the next day @ 1k (second day of state 1000yd championship, first day was horrible with that ES/SD)... BR4s showed marginally better vertical than the Wolf, with the added benefit of being more readily available.

 

[dkhunt14]

Don't get hung up on ES... I've done similar primer tests and the best ES doesn't necessarily (rarely even?) translate to the best performance on target, even at long range.

Tom and I have said this many times. In fact most of the time it is the worst groups and most vertical at 1000. I guess guys just don't believe it. Matt

 

[6BRinNZ]

Don't get hung up on ES... I've done similar primer tests and the best ES doesn't necessarily (rarely even?) translate to the best performance on target, even at long range.

What is the conclusion with primers - if it holds good vertical job done?

 

[jawjaboy]

Wolf and Tula being near impossible to find, I am curious whether anyone has compared Sellier & Bellot primers' performance to Wolf

Not Wolf but I did run S&B against CCI200 in my initial load testing in my new 284 rig. The S&B give slightly better SD & ES numbers with H4831 and SMK 183s but worse vertical and group size.

 

[Jay Christopherson]

What is the conclusion with primers - if it holds good vertical job done?

It seems trite to say, but results on target trump any numbers that come off the chronograph. Most of the time, I only pay attention to SD and only over a very long string of data to give me an indication of either changes in my rifle or something not going right in my reloading process. Since I've owned a Labradar and shot with it at several matches, my interest in ES has pretty much nulled out.

When I test primers, I'm always happy if the data from the chrono matches the result on paper (and I'll always do verification test), but I'm mostly just looking to see what provides the least amount of vertical on target, without adding in a bunch of crazy horizontal.

 

[savagedasher]

Till you get low ES I don't think you can not have vertical at distance . Math should tell you that . Larry

 

[Jay Christopherson]

Till you get low ES I don't think you can not have vertical at distance . Math should tell you that . Larry

If ES were the only variable in the equation, that would be true.